Intermittent fasting

When I had my pouch I did it.  Only because of the trouble it was causing me.  Didn't have any benefits except it slowed output which is what I wanted but in turn lost weight which was not good for me at the time. 

Why may I ask would you want to do this if all is ok with your pouch? 

Richard. 

Dave,

There are different types of fasting...some can be helpful and others dangerous...I did a lot of fasting as a kid and teen (my mom was into fad diets and she sort of dragged me along with her on them)...so I did the maple syrup, lemon juice and cayanne pepper fast (mixed into boiling water and drunk at regular intervals throughout the day)...it lasted a week.

That was pre-pouch and funny enough, after the first 24hrs I felt great...

The freshly squeezed juice fast (or veggie)...I could go a full week...Again the first 24hrs are horrific then your whole body calms down. For a pouchitisy pouch it may have a positive effect but if you start to feel ill, Stop!

The soup fast where you only drink hot veggie clear soup has the advantage of giving you salts and avoids the light-headed feeling...

The out and out NPO fast meaning nothing beyond your lips is bad, bad, bad.

You can seriously dehydrate. You can throw your electrolytes off...you can do damage.

I did them all...including the NPO (no i.v. fluids either)....it practically shut down my pouch and made me ill for weeks...now I know better...

All things in moderation including moderation.

Sharon

Someone else posted a thread on this topic a while back and was doing intermittent fasting together with a lemon juice-cayenne pepper bowel cleanse.  I guess the theory is that these types of regimens prevent build up of bad bacteria which in turn causes pouchitis and inflammation.  The downside is that unless you hook yourself up to an IV infused with nutrients, you are depriving your body of needed nutrients and minerals and could possibly be creating other problems like anemias, vitamin B deficiency, etc.  These things should always be done under the supervision of a physician, especially if it becomes any type of regimen.

I'm learning about fasting as well and also doing a little experimenting. Several good topics to consider with the other posts! There's several kinds/types of fasting. Which were you considering? I personally get results if I either fast from 9:30 am to 8ish pm. I could have 2 meals in the morning and one in the evening. Also I'm realizing that if I eat three meals from say 6/7 am to noon and then not eat again that sometimes I sleep all night. The problem is I love to eat. Also when you do eat a meal remember to not overindulge, I still have to work on that control. As for the dehydration, I drink Ultima Replenisher, I get it on amazon and it comes in several different flavors. It contains several electrolytes and NO sugar. I will also get gas - 1. When I am empty/fasting and 2. when my bacterial flora in my gut is off. I'm just starting a new diet to attempt to adjust that, I won't say what it is until I find out if it works for me. Are you taking and digestive enzymes, and what was the reason your going to try fasting?

I've been trying the 16/8 hour fast where I only eat during an 8 hour window. I've been reading some studies where it starves cancer cells. I watched my father in law die of brain cancer and it got me thinking about preventatives. I've never taken any meds for my pouch and don't have any real issues. Just wanted to experiment.

I am not against a partial fast 1x/week...I never eat breakfast, just fluids so I would skip lunch and go to bed early so that I only woke up the next morning...did it for years on my day off...not sure if it helped but it didn't hurt.

Sharon

I am unclear of what the actual health benefits of intermittent fasting are. Understand that most of us fast every day. This is why the first meal of the day is called breakfast. We fast from late evening until we arise in the morning (unless you are the type to raid the refrigerator in the middle of the night).

Some people complain that they dread the short fast of a clear liquid diet before a procedure, worried they might suffer dehydration or weakness. But most of us have enough reserves to fast a few days as long as we stay hydrated.

Still, I don't see any actual health benefits to fasting. But, if you feel better when you do it, go for it. If it makes you feel awful, it just seems like punishment.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/is_fasting_healthy

Jan

Mysticobra posted:

When I had my pouch I did it.  Only because of the trouble it was causing me.  Didn't have any benefits except it slowed output which is what I wanted but in turn lost weight which was not good for me at the time. 

Why may I ask would you want to do this if all is ok with your pouch? 

Richard. 

Hey Richard,

did you go back to having a stoma?

i had my take down surgery almost a year ago and ive been in terrible pain fatigue weight loss and just plain old feel crappy.

i find I often sort of fast as well to try to manage my symptoms but it's really no use after a while as I got way too skinny. 

Im going in for a second opinion next week but going back to the bag is something I've sort of accepted at this point. 

Hope you are doing well 

Bumping this to hear if anyone else has had any success with intermittent fasting.

Seems like there are some health benefits, purportedly, to 16-8 fasting.  I was going to try eating only during the noon to 8pm window.  Was wondering if there is any risk for us jpouchers specifically?  Can still hydrate as much as necessary during that time.

I’d just call that schedule “skipping breakfast.” As long as you stay hydrated and pay attention to your body it’s probably fine.

Sorry to necro an old thread but I think what I’m going through now may be relevant to some folks here. We will see I guess.

I’m currently testing out a nighttime fast to see if I can get my night time bathroom trips under control. My window after eating for having to use the restroom is about 6-8 hours, meaning after a meal I will have to use the restroom 6-8 hours later.  Sooner if I eat a bunch of insoluble fiber, slightly later if I “pre-eat” with soluble fiber and Imodium. This makes dinner problematic as the normal times to eat dinner wake me up in the night and eating then falling asleep instantly isn’t an option.

Reading through other folks’ responses I feel I should note that I’m drinking a lot of water and teas in the fasting window (currently experimenting with no food from ~2pm-~8am breakfast). I am naturally light (31 yr old male, 5’10 at about 140 lbs, 14-15% b.f.) so weight loss is a concern, so my caloric intake is very high in the eating window, and generally speaking I’ve had better luck with big meals all at once rather than the often suggested six small meals a day or similar plans. It is a DRAG going to the damn restroom all the time. Also an eyebrow raiser for folks that don’t know me 8)

This is the first deliberate fast I’ve embarked on in my life so I’m coming to grips with the hunger pangs and adjusting to ignoring that feeling. Strangely, that hungry feeling is a very strong motivator for the morning workout though! Sort of makes sense considering ancient people would have been very hungry without the knowledge of where their food was coming from next. Their “workout” was tracking and hunting an animal or foraging for food. Here I am “freaking out” with a fridge full of food. Spoiled 21st century American!

My diet is pescatarian with occasional fish and shellfish complimenting a vegetarian base (can’t shake the Louisiana out of me I guess). As I’m sure many of you have done, I cut nearly all added sugars from my intake. I didn’t like all the fiber and cramps associated with fiber in raw and steamed veggies (turns me into a power washer in the bathroom) but still wanted the nutrition so instead I juice a head of lettuce, bunch of kale, and pound of broccoli per week with a cucumber some limes and two apples and celery and drink that over three days or so while it’s fresh. For this fast experiment I am eating directly after the morning workout (a protein shake before my shower to try and stop muscle breakdown, then a big egg omelette, whole avocado, whole wheat bread slices or bagel, and unsweetened oatmeal meal once I’m showered). I’ve also been experimenting with sauna use post workout, mainly to slow the effects of oxidative stress as pertains to muscle breakdown (and anywhere else it’ll help to be honest). I DONT want to get thinner while doing this so I’m trying whatever I can to prevent it

Playing everything by ear right now, listening to my body first and foremost and letting it guide the process. I have never gotten decent nutritional advice from my surgeon, GI, and even the nutritionalist at the hospital. The solutions before and after my j-pouch surgeries have always been surgical, pharmaceutical, and questionable respectively. 

If I learn anything along the way that seems worth sharing I’ll revisit this post and report. 

Hi Jay,

It sounds interesting and is worth the try if that is what you feel that you need.

As a young k poucher in Paris with a limited scope of bathrooms in my personal and professional lives, I had to do the opposite routine. I would fast from morning until night and then only eat an evening meal. 

I went to bed late enough that I would have the time to empty my pouch 2xs before sleep and then once I woke up...I couldn't risk daytime emptying because where I went to school the toilets were less than iffy...they were Niffy (not even iffy!)...so I had to nix that and work was just a nightmare (think backwoods abandoned cabin: rust, leaky flush, no running water and mould)...

This worked for me for the duration but I did really put my metabolism under a lot of pressure and pretty much destroy it. Your body will remember what you do to it and make you pay in the longrun...so remember to be kind to it...

I do not know what time you go to bed (that is a big issue...I usually didn't sleep before 2am) but maybe you can sneak something in at around 4pm...something small that will be in and out before bedtime...one meal a day is rough on your body even if it is essentially a 2hr meal...

Good luck and keep us posted.

ps. I would make sure that I ate as normally as possible on the weekends to make up for my daily routine.

Sharon

Hey Sharon - thanks for sharing. That toilet situation sounds like a real drag! I thought I had it bad here with the way men treat public restrooms (like dogs, generally speaking).

I failed to mention that I eat a second meal right at 2pm. So basically ~9am and 2pm. One meal would be QUITE extreme although I've heard of folks who do it, albeit all at night similar to you. The metabolism thing is a concern for sure. I'm doing regular stops at the pharmacy to check my blood pressure, body fat and weight. I know it's not the most accurate measurements but a trend up or down should be fairly reliable at least to see if my numbers are moving drastically in any direction. 

Jay,

Over the years I have tried many different ways of eating (I do not and never have used the word diet because of its connotations) and I have learned quite a bit...protein is my friend whenever I am worried about my pouch and output. I can eat an animal protein and it will basically stick and stay for quite a while...So I keep lean cold cuts in the house (smoked turkey breast, chicken, ground beef...) in order to have a quick and pouch friendly snack.

I do a lot of Greek yoghurt whenever I am at work, it is thicker, more satisfying, higher in protein and for some strange reason, more pouch friendly.

It does not give me the bubbles and unhappy output that some regular ones do...I also only eat plain...never with sugary additives.

All fruits, eaten alone on an empty stomach, will run through rather quickly...That means that I can have a fruit dinner at 8pm (that is dinner time here!) and be fine for sleep at 11pm (getting older, going to be earlier!) ...Ditto for veggies...I eat an artichoke for dinner some nights...then I am just fine, no nightly wake up calls.

You need to test things with your body, digestive system and pouch...we are all different...and require different solutions...There is no 'one size fits all' solution or advice here.  Just some basic digestive rules...fruits digest (if eaten alone) in about 20 mins (sort of ditto for green veggies), carbs around 3hrs, proteins around 6...multiply those numbers if you are mixing things up...also know that those numbers were for people with healthy digestive systems so we may just be different.

In my case they hold true.

Sharon

Hey Sharon! Thanks for sharing your experience. Totally agree with the fruits shooting through the body. Similar for veggies and insoluble fibers, really flushes things out. 

I wanted to drop a little update here in case anyone stumbles across this thread in the future. There's a few things I've found that might help others.

The intermittent fasting experiment has been a GREAT help to me in getting better quality sleep. If nothing else, the discipline of eating on a schedule (10 am, 1 pm, 4 pm) has kept my bathroom times fairly predictable and my nights are in a much deeper fasted state so my intestines tend to be less mobile and emptier. The result is that I can regularly get 6 hours of uninterrupted sleep. No sleep aids, no Imodium, no nothing. Just closed eyes, count the sheep sleep. After two years of 2-3 hour spurts of sleep interrupted by bathroom trips, I feel like a different person (and indeed those close to me have said I have an improved mood, which.. DUH I'm getting sleep!).

Another improvement to the routine is doing the veggie juice right after my last meal at 4pm. Although juicing removes a lot of the fiber, some still remains in the juice and as a result this stuff really mobilizes the intestines at the end of the eating window. It ensures that I get a large period of not needing the restroom during the night and I've seen some solid 8 hour nights doing this. Juicing can be a tad time consuming though, so large recipes are work best (my main green recipe makes 4x16oz servings that last nearly through the whole week: head of lettuce, bunch of kale, pound of broccoli, cucumber, two limes, two apples and 10ish stalks of celery for liquid).

I mentioned earlier I was afraid of losing weight doing this but have so far not experienced this. I do notice fluctuations of course as I'm heaviest at 4pm and lightest right before my first meal in the morning, but those two numbers tend to be the same every day. This is encouraging as I see it as a sign that my body is properly absorbing the nutrition I put in it, despite it being in a truncated time frame of about 6 hours. 

I've noticed that fat and protein based meals work better for me, whereas carbs, even complex ones, tend to cause problems. When eating more carbs my skin is redder, my brain a bit foggier, and I feel a bit off. High fat and protein diets aren't for everyone of course so take it with a gran of salt.

Blood pressure has remained steady, around 100-110/65-70. Body fat the same, hovering between 13 and 14%. Overall daily calories are about 2200-2500.

Reading the very first post in this thread... I'd say take soluble fiber (psyllium husk) before meals. The most effective method I've found for this is in pill form. 6 pills is usually a serving and I wouldn't take any less than that. Drink it down with a half cup or a cup of water. Give it about 10-15 minutes to "set up" in your system then go to town on some food. I think of it like a pace car in racing. Once the soluble fiber absorbs some liquid, it expands and will form a mass that pushes out against the small intestine. Food you eat will have trouble passing this mass and will have a better chance to be more completely absorbed. 

Insoluble fiber will have the opposite effect, serving only to mobilize the intestines without providing any "road block" quality that the lump of soluble fiber provides. 

That’s awesome about your uninterrupted sleep. That would be amazing. I’ll look into trying psyllium husk. Do you eat any veggies other than what you have in your juice? Thanks for the help. 

I definitely do - nothing raw though unfortunately. I think raw veggies would be great for nutrition but I don't find them to be very digested when I pass my food later on. If I steam them on low heat I have no problem digesting, and it definitely helps to keep things interesting. 

Well, I just realized reading the above thread my life will never be the same.  I just had my second surgery and my takedown is scheduled for the end of July.   From what I am reading dietary and medication routines are now necessary for optimal pouch performance.  I would like to think I could continue to have dinner with the family without worrying about how many times in the night will I have to get up to empty my pouch.  But it seems limiting my food and what I eat and when I eat will be a new experience for myself.   

I am not a big snacker but I do love chocolate will that be something I have to cut back on permanently due to sugar as mentioned above.  

Everything sounds so overwhelming, is it something I will have to deal with for the rest of my life worrying about food, times and bathroom trips?

Valli, most J-pouchers don’t make elaborate dietary adjustments or have messed up sleep. The folks who spend time on support forums, though, will often be folks who are having issues, but that doesn’t predict anything for you. I did include psyllium from the very beginning, but plenty of folks do fine without it. I eat a completely unrestricted diet, and almost always sleep through the night. 

Valli,

I agree with Scott,

Most of the people who come here to the forum and other sites are either pre-op looking for info or post-op and trying to make sense of the changes but once things settle down (and yes, there is usually an adjustment for your body and brain that takes from a few weeks to a few months or even up to a year...but once that period is over you can go back to living your life).

We have all had massive adjustments done to our anatomy and it is not like taking a car in and having the oil changed...it does not just up-and-go...it needs time...yes, some of us (and I am a k poucher so for me it is totally different) we need more time to adjust but mostly you do not hear from the vast majority once surgery is over.

But, and this is a big but...you need to be patient and learn to listen to your body...it will take some time and you may be frustrated and upset for a while until both your brain and body adjust.

Sharon

I have had my pouch for less than two years.  I don't really restrict myself much as far as diet, just try to eat reasonably healthy.  I sleep through the night and have for quite some time now.  I also use Benefiber once a day and two Immodium at night and am pretty vigilant about my fluid intake.  So far, no issues, and I usually have 4-6 bm's a day.  I like to come on the forum for information mostly.  Hopefully, things will stay this way!

Hi Valli,

I agree with those who say to give yourself time to readjust naturally. I'm on the forums for exactly the reasons stated. I waited 2-3 years and never really adjusted like I thought I would to having the pouch. So I was looking for a solution to a unique problem and sharing in case anyone else happened to find this in the future. Every surgery, body, and outcome will be unique and if you're just sensitive to your own needs you'll do fine.

Thank you for the above statements.  I do feel better regarding your above replies.  I think everything is a little overwhelming right now and things will settle down.  I pray I will be one of the ones who experience no major problems.  Its been a long year already.  Just booked a 7 day Caribbean cruise before my takedown so looking forward to getting away and eating ... lol 

We also went on vacation prior to my second surgery!  Have a great time!  It was only eight weeks between the 2nd and Takedown so we just took it easy during that time.  We waited a little over 2 months after that to go away again.  For me, it was probably a little early, mostly due to butt burn.  Glad I don't have that to deal with anymore.

Jaypouch,

Any update on how things are going for you? And if you don't mind, is it possible to outline what you eat in an average day? I've been very interested in an 8-hour eating window, but I've really no resources other than what I find online. Feeling very alone and confused, I guess.

Regardless, I appreciate you sharing your 'experiment' so far. So thank you for that.

Valli,  I have had my pouch for going on 16 years.  I actually made no changes in my diet.  I eat whatever time I want and still eat sugar and vegetable and fruits and even popcorn!  I did not eliminate anything from my diet.  I have had pouchitus a few times and have had blockage problems that were all mechanical not food based because I have problems with scar tissue from surgeries. I have had 3 scar tissue surgeries in 15 years.  I have also always had complete control of my pouch.  I have almost always had to go to the bathroom a couple of times a night, but I have always just felt like that's part of it.  Some nights I don't.  I work out regularly...running, yoga, and piyo.  Don't worry to much about it.  Just take it slow at first and think positive.  You are already used to the nutritional problems of not having a colon so that part will not change.  

Good Luck to you!

I have tried the fasting protocols of the Snake Diet on You Tube. I did a 49 hour fast last week, but should have just kept going since it didn't really bother me. I just started another fast today and hope to make it 72 hours. I drink my electrolytes of potassium, magnesium (Epsom salt; food grade), and sodium (from baking soda & Himalayan Salt) in a couple of liter bottles a day. I mixed a pinch of cayenne and cinnamon in too.  I sleep terribly getting up 4 to 6 times a night. I have been trying to eat more Keto like, giving up bread and other junk. The intermittent fasting will pose a problem with eating enough food in the window, which will be large at first, but will try to tackle that after this fast. 

Spooked,

 I have had a k pouch for 39 yrs...(only difference with a j pouch  is just the exit strategy)...

So I have tried pretty much every diet and eating method out there. My mom would jump on any fad that hit the media including the very dangerous 30day fast...took me along with her on every one. (Maybe she thought that one of them would "cure"me?)

All I can tell you is the very best tool for figuring out what does and does not work for You is a food diary and a crash course in basic nutrition.

I have no diplomas in it but have studied my whole life to be able to figure out my pouch and it's requirements.

I do not believe in a 1 size fits all pouchers diet but that we and our bodies are all unique. 

But some basic truths hold true. Carbs or starches (bread, potatoes, pasta, rice...) are bulky and take approx 3hrs to digest. Proteins ( meat, fish, fowel, seafood, eggs...) are lower residue and take aprox 6hrs to digest. Fruits are high water/ fructose and digest in 20 mins. Veggies are high water/fibers and take up to an hour. Dairy can be an irritant for us and cause bloating and gas.

You do not need to be a dietician to figure out that if you mix them all together in one meal that you will multiply those digestive times together and things will stick around too long and cause gas and bloating or problems.

Fasting can be successfully used by most people to clear out their colons...ours have  already moved out! No need.

We evacuate our systems daily so we really do not need to fast on a digestive level... on a metabolic level it could be dangerous. Or not...if you are young and healthy...but you are here...so you are a poucher.

It is easier and safer to start with a simple mono-diet like chicken on day 1...write everything down...(including what you eat or drink with what and which meds you take) and add another food day 2...write down what makes your pouch and body happy or doesn't. Work from there and you will discover patterns.

Sorry for being so long but I understand the confusion and desperation. . I have lived it. I found what works for me .

Find your balance or pm me for help.

Sharon.