Help with SCD. Impossible not to eat carbohydrates. How do you guys do it?

I'm not expert in how to manage this diet, but I can tell you that the guidance to avoid nuts, vegetables, etc. should be gently tested in your body. Most J-pouchers can enjoy these - some in quantity and some in moderation. Sometimes post-op advice intended to apply for a few weeks is followed for too long.

I always recommend making diet changes gradually, even if the end result is to make a drastic change. For me, the SCD diet is just too complicated. I do not eliminate all carbs from my diet, but have reduced them quite a bit. It all depends on your individual tolerance, I think. As I learned in my weight loss classes, it is not so much what is going in, but portion size. The idea is not to make you feel like you are suffering and sacrificing, and gradual is the way to do it. SCD is not the only game in town...

I used to eat a big plate of spaghetti as a meal. Now, if I have pasta, it is a small side dish, with meat and vegetables taking the larger sections of my plate. I have toast, but not daily, and not if I am having cereal. I eat less starchy snacks, and go for fruit and nuts instead. But, my function is pretty good for the most part. If I was battling chronic pouchitis or bacterial overgrowth (or if my diabetes progressed), I would reduce carbs further.

Jan

CPGuy,

Like you I am also Italian, a full blooded Italian and I have had to make extreme diet changes. I have had my J-Pouch since 1994.

For the most part, I try and stay on a Gluten Free Diet and a Milk Free Diet.

Rice Pasta is one alternative I have made and I have had to get used to it.

You would be surprised at the number of alternatives that are out on the market. I drink Almond Milk, I also eat Almond Yogurt. I try and stay away from fried foods and fast food restaurants like McDonald's is like eating poison for me.

I stay away from fresh veggies because I cannot digest it properly.

If I eat a huge meal, then I have trouble. I felt the affects of that this past Saturday night at our parish roast beef dinner which I participated in helping out the chefs.

I had such acute pain in my right side of my gut, that I had to leave. I had to go home, lay down and put a heating pad on my gut where it hurt. To sneeze and to cough also caused me to have pain.

I took some Activated Charcoal and after about an hour, I felt much better.

Rocket

I don't follow a specific carb diet either (though I have almost completely eliminated pasta and foods with added sugars, except where they can't be avoided - such as when eating at someone's house, etc). That being said, it can be extremely difficult just to quit carbs cold turkey. To start, therefore, I'd suggest keeping it as simple, by first eliminating all the "white" foods - including pasta, white bread, white flour, white sugar, foods with added or hidden sugar, etc -- and then build from there. Do one group at a time. You may find that you don't even have to eliminate every group; you might do well just getting rid of white flour and white sugar, which can be some of the worst culprits for people. Best of luck to you!

i believe i have sibo bacteria overgrowth..prior to that i thought it was chronic pouchitis..both treated with antibiotics..

the scd diet i think (for me) works on balancing my bacteria..ecause of doing it over the past 3 months i am for the first time off antibiotics..i do eat nuts and veggies and fruit..and perhaps you can do the same as scott said the diet you had at beginning may no longer apply..if having selections of the above at reasonable intake scd can be followed...to replace bread in my life i make the almond bread receipe in scd diet book..i do not cook or bake but that is easy to make..and you can make all kinds of things out of the almond flour,pancakes,cookies and so on..sand if you want your treats without making them go go to digestive wellness.com site you can order ready made things and additional cook books to make things..instead of pasta i have winter squash made into stripes as substitute for pasta..

gertting back to veggies fruit nuts..try diet and start with the more digestible veggies,carrots string beans among some..fruit try blueberries,bananas.apple without skin at first,water mellon perhaps,nuts try almonds..i have found i did not have to go with the home made yoghurt in scd i could eat face greek yoghurt with out any difference in my bacteria control..actually have that every morning with banna some berries a hean full of almond chips ..found butter lettuce to be easier on my intestine..try that ..

i might add i was very sensitive to nuts,veggies for a long time after surgery but realized it got better ..

follow scd by avoiding all starchy carbs(they really feed bad bateria)does not matter if its white or brown..all grains must go and simple sugar except for what is naturally in veggies,my yoghurt etc..i have a few tablespoons of peanut butter (trader joe has one with just 1 gram of sugar) put it on banana ..great treat..i eat almond butter..some cheeses are permitted on scd..so a slice or so with a fruit is nice..you also can eat eggs, and it allows butter..i only use sparingly ..like olive oil better...

i do not find scd complicated it lists foods permitted and things not pretty clearly..their are ways to subsitute for the things you cannot have..

sometimes conditions are both pouchitis and bacteria overgrowth or one or other..if you follow diet you may see very big improvement ot some as i do not know the cause of pouchitis..if its bacteria overgrowth i think its worth a try

now with this said i am off antibiotics very big thing for me after continual usage of full doses of rotating various antibiotics for 7 years and not having the burning ,cut glass feeling,and going much much more..

however, i still have other issues with pouch or result of operation but they are mostly annoying and live with them or am now free to work on helping easing those issues..after relieving the most devastating issues of bacteria overgrowth..

i hope this very long email is helpful for you..

I agree with Spooky - start slow, don't feel you need to be be "anal" with the diet. My biggest changes are that I've cut out white breads, no longer have grains with meals (except for quinoa, and try to cut way back on any sugars. I still had a bite of fudge with my coffee this morning, though

quote:

I stay away from fresh veggies because I cannot digest it properly

What I meant to stay is I stay away from raw vegtables. I do eat carrots, string beans for the most part, but avoid veggies that cause me gas such as broccoli, peas, caulflower and things like that. I do miss having a fresh salad but I do have that on some rare occassions.

Rocket

I haven't done SCD with my pouch, but I did give it an honest go when I had UC. It was a lot of work, but there are lots of things you can make.

We baked every weekend as the entire family went on it with me. We made almond flour buns, bread, pancakes etc. I bought the yogurt maker and made yogurt every day etc. We even made our own condiments - ketchup, mayo etc. We did it for 6 weeks.

It is doable, but not easy. And, since I am on this forum, you can see how well it worked for me for UC.

Thanks so much for the feedback guys.

Question.... ok so if it is advised to cut out white bread and white pasta, would wholemeal bread and pasta be ok? Or oat bread? Carbs give energy and fill you up. I cannot live on a protein diet only. Also I heard it is dangerous to completely cut out carbs.

If starchy carbs are bad are there some other carbs more forgiving?

What's a good alternative to Rice Dream (rice milk) aim allowed to use?

I spoke to two doctors about this diet and theory and they both said they were sceptical, no proof and advise me not to do it.

I have one big question to ask too... not sure whether to start a new thread or not....

...anyway here it is. I noticed when I was on antibiotics, when I opened my bowels, there was virtually no bad smell at all. Now I have stopped my antibiotics (my choice to give my body a break as I don't want to be immune to them), when my bowels are opened, it smells so bad its awful. Not normal stool smell, very very bad smell. Stays on you clothes, in bed sheets. Is this a sign of bacteria in my gut? Overgrowth? A SIBO symptom? Its really embarrassing if I am out in public and I leak as I am faecally incontinent because my surgeon tore my inner sphincter

The bacteria unfortunately don't care that the diet is inconvenient. In any case, there are plenty of carbohydrates permitted on the SCD, but they may not be the ones you are accustomed to or find convenient. You could also look at a low FODMAP diet, which allows some more "conventional" dietary carbohydrate.

I'm sympathetic to your concern - it's why I haven't turned to low carbs yet (although I did folllow the SCD strictly for a couple of months before the surgery).

I decided to do a modified Paelo diet.Giving up carbs was really hard for the first 3 weeks but there r so many recipes online for grain free bread. Now, I have no taste for carbs. Still have not been able to quit sugar, lol. Working on that. Did feel awful for the first 2 weeks but now I'm ok.

Sugar is a carb, too. It will be hard to know what it means if the diet doesn't work, but you're not really following the diet. Good luck - I've been reluctant to try to climb the hill you're on.

Can anyone please give me some tips?

I am definitely trying to stop sugar intake in terms of sweets, chocolates, cakes, drinks, jam etc.

However as mentioned, I would find it impossible to cut out carbohydrates. Are there some carbohydrates I can eat? What's the difference between complex carbs and starchy carbs etc? Is one more forgiving than the other? If not maybe is wholemeal bread or 50/50 or oatmeal bread better than white bread or are they just as bad? Would gluten free bread and pasta be much better too to reduce bacteria overgrowth?

Thank you all!

....maybe a good idea to look up gut bad bacteria and foods..might get some of your answers on line that make sense for you. and use scd if you want in large part as guide.. and if i were 100 per cent scd myself i could not eat my commercial yoghurt but i do and it seems ok (one gram of sugar)and if strictly scd one would not eat commercial or restaurant foods at all but only home cooked i do not do that....so understanding what might contribute to bad bacteria you can pick worst offenders first..see if you have improvement..

and i love sweets things too alleycat but my go to food is fruit,fruit,fruit...i probably have three or 4 types a day..seems to get me by..from time to time i use a little raw honey too..

one of my go to treats i freeze red grapes and eat them as a dessert..yummy!!and even peeled frozen bananas are yummy too..

mom 2 panda when i had colitus i tried scd diet..stuck strictly to it 2 years(stubborn i guess,holding out it would help me as it had so many other colitus/chrohns people) it did not work for me,my colitus disease involved more than bad bacteria.. however, ironically it absolutely has gotten me off antibiotics now (no other changes) so far past three months...dr. shen said i had bacteria overgrowth issues...so it did not work for my colitus but working now..

this is all pretty complicated as we are all not the same and everything does not work for everybody..right now i am profoundly grateful to main principles of scd because it has put me in a place up to recently i could only dream about..

cbgguy have to comment on this.."doctors say diet not proven and advised you not to try it"

i get that most doctors are reluctant to food being able to fix or help you..its just not in their mind set or what they studied..drugs,drugs,drugs is what they know.and generally what tests are tried and proven to help.
..but i do not get a doctor actually telling you "do not try the diet"..that seems to reveal an ignorance on their part..it would be completely harmless to try eliminating certain foods..perhaps they were saying they did not advise stopping your drugs while trying diet? in my case i started diet in conjunction with my antibiotics(2 months) and after that dropped drug to see how it would go..day by day i was amazed to see i could stay off the antibiotics i depended on for 7 years..

i chose to go off all starchy carbs(grains,potatoes,rice,corn)and sugar outside of few grams per a food here and there or what is naturally in veggies etc..i just did not want to pick and choose..its possible some would still be ok like my commercial yoghurt..

I agree, while most doctors agree that there is not much evidence that diet alone has a consistent effect on the disease, I haven't come across any who advised against experimenting. I think any doctor has had enough education to know that there are individual tolerances and the notion of food intolerance and/or dietary impact on gut flora/fauna is a growing trend that is not just junk science.

Where they are at a loss is that they really cannot recommend one diet over another because the evidence is mostly anecdotal. But, there is no harm in experimenting. When folks say that carbs are necessary for health, that is true. But, we do not NEED bread, pasta, rice and snack foods. There are plenty of carbs in root vegetables, beans, dairy. We eat way more carbs than necessary, in general.

I love carbs, so I understand the difficulty in making a dramatic change. That is why I suggest a gradual change. If you feel like you are severely depriving yourself, you will not succeed. So, before eliminating something you love, try reducing your portions by at least half.

Yes, whole grains are more healthy than processed, but grains in general should be reduced as much as possible. When we eat more carbs than we need, the bacteria eat it for us, resulting in gas and diarrhea. That is the whole point of reducing carbs in your diet.

Simple carbs are sugars. Complex carbs are starch. Has nothing to do with how processed it is. With vegetable based carbs, there is a lot of insoluble fiber (roughage) that does not digest. But, they contain vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients that we do not even know about, so. They are worth eating. Seeing it in the bowl is fine and not a sign that you are not getting nutrients. Whole grains are better for you because they contain more soluble fiber (also not digested).

Hope that explains a little about how it works.

Jan

Thank you.

look at FODMAP
it has scientific evidece behind it
Dr. Shen at CC had me try it for bacterial overgrowth

AND FODMAPS lets you eat some carbs
you can have rice or corn pasta, rice
rice bread (UDI is the best one I have found)
and cereals without wheat or inulin (pre-biotic stuff) and other types of carbs. Just a big no no is wheat.

so sure.. these carbs aren't the same... BUT they are better than no carbs! and you can get used to rice pasta in your spaghetti!!!