Average # of BMs for older pouchers

Typically 4 or 5x during the day and I usually have to get up once during the night.

About 4 or 5 times daily. Rarely at night unless I have eaten something funky.

Karen

Coming up on 3 years since first surgery and I don't even count. My surgeon asked me the same question when I when for my last annual exam and I guessed 8-10. I usually get up once at night, but have found more and more that I can sleep throughout without getting up.

I'm just so thankful for my restored health!

Cowboy

Just 4 yrs past tackdown 6/3/08
6 to 8 times a day 2 to 3 times at night

normal for me is 5-6 times a day, once a night, sometimes twice. I can go longer easily, but that's what's 'comfortable' to me.

I go 4-5 times a day. The only time I go at night is if I eat something right before bedtime.

My usual day:

- I go when I wake up
- I go after lunch
- I go when I get home from work at 5
- I go after dinner
- I go before I go to bed

2 years in August

1-3 times on average. Usually never than 4 times a day at most and never at night. This is all if I am healthy and well. It's different if something is going wrong.

I am an odd j-poucher. I was sent home from the hospital with laxatives after surgery because I wasn't going enough. Usually you're sent home with stuff to slow you down! There are even days I don't go to the bathroom at all which freaks me out a bit with having a j-pouch and all.

The issue with me not going often is because I have a motility disorder and I also have Crohn's disease so strictures. It is a nice benefit though and one of the only perks to having a motility disorder and Crohn's is how it affects my pouch.

pardon my stupidity but is the high number of bowel movements due to the small area of the pouch? I have not had the surgery yet and I go once or twice a day. Sometimes 3.

I think # of times per day differs greatly from person to person, even from day to day for some. There are so many factors that can contribute to output, and also many options to slow things down. I've had my pouch 10 years and everything for me depends on diet, exercise, fiber intake, etc. I think it took almost a full year for my body to find it's groove, but it was worth it. Anything is an improvement from having a bad UC flare and going 20-30 times per day!

Best of luck!

Thank you for all the input. Appreciate it.

I've had my pouch for over two years now and have had chronic pouchitis since 6 weeks after takedown. As long as it's treated, which is pretty easy to do, I usually go once in the morning, lunchtime, late afternoon, then at least three times from 4-10pm (busy bowel time). If something wakes me up then I have to go in the middle of the night once, but I can usually wait til morning.

quote:

is the high number of bowel movements due to the small area of the pouch?

It's due to the missing colon. One of the colon's jobs is fluid extraction. The small intestine/j-pouch has to learn to take over this function but doesn't quite get there. It usually does a quite fine job but it's never going to be a colon.

If you're lucky you may find that you'll be making the same amount of bathroom trips as you make now but that's usually not the case. However, with the j-pouch there isn't the urgency that there is with UC. You can hold things for quite a while. Most people just find that they have a bowel movement everytime they visit the bathroom to urinate. Do you know how many times you urinate per day right now? Probably not. And if you drink a lot of fluids you'll be urinating more. Same thing with a j-pouch - if you eat certain foods you may have more bathroom trips (sometimes).

I don't count bathroom trips - it is what it is. There will be things you can do to lessen your bathroom trips once everything is functioning.

kathy

I'm more than 9 years out and I have so many bowel movements it's outrageous! Some days are better than others, but I usually have 20 or more trips to the bathroom during the day. I've tried many medicines without change; diet doesn't seem to help. The only thing that slows up the movement is an opiate, and I hae to be careful with it, only taking it occasionally at night. Even then, I may have to get up 4-8 times. It's frustrating. Anyone got an idea or two?

Just curious, of the post on this forum from old time pouchers, how many use supplements like immodium and medamucil?

Steve, I'm also in the 4-5 times/day category. Rarely have
to get up at night. I take Metamucil 2 times/day; once in AM
and once in PM. I no longer use Immodium on a regular
basis; only in the first 6 mos or so. I hope this helps.
Prayers & Best Wishes, Steve

I've had my pouch for over 4 years. Though it may be hard to believe now, it does get to a point where you almost don't keep track of how much you go any more. You may also be surprised to find that frequency can and does vary considerably.

Most days I probably go 4 or 5 times, though I can go as few as 3 and as many as 8 depending on what I've been eating. I'm probably up once at night about 1/3 of the time. The rest of the time I can sleep through, that is when my cat doesn't wake me up! (That said, I was at about the 2 year mark before I was able to sleep an entire night).

I use imodium and pepto bismol only rarely (less than once per week, and then only 1 tablet) and I have never used lomotil with the pouch. I do not take a fibre supplement as I found Metamucil gave me too much gas, and Benefibre made no noticeable difference either way.

Joefine - So sorry to hear that. Considering how long it's been for you, I imagine you've tried everything. I'm 8 years out. I have tried many things also. I go 5-8 times/day, but I am satisfied with that. I have found that if I slow things up too much, I have to strain and I do not want to do that -- seems like a bad idea to me. In the past I have done immodium & medamucil. Didn't help maybe because it was so early after TD. Rice works really well for me, but I don't eat it regularly because it slows me too much. I eat a banana each morning. I take probiotics twice a day (14 billion). I found that probiotics 3 times a day made me too slow. I always take Levsin at bedtime which helps. I also take Levsin if I'm going out for dinner with friends and don't want to be going to b-room more than once. As far as foods, I never eat raw veggies or fruit or beans and I eat very little beef. I try not to eat fried foods or spicey food. And yes, my food choices get boring sometimes, but I've learned to live with it and chicken can be prepared a million different ways . My biggest downfall is sweets. Doesn't help pouchitis a lot, so I try not to cheat too much. The good thing about my diet is that I've maintained the same healthy weight for 4 years. Good luck. Maybe you will find other ideas on this site. What works for each individual is different.

Right now I'm going probably 4-5 times a day, once in the night. I take immodium a half hour before every meal, and once before bed, so 4 a day. I take it for the increased water absorption more than anything, as I'm active in the summer and like to stay hydrated. Of course a nice side effect to that is you have to go to the bathroom less! I also like taking the loperamide long term since I don't get any side effects from it and it's a mild drug.

I average about 6-8 most days, but the first 4 years or so it was more like 8-16. I really don't keep count, not because there are so many, but because it just becomes part of my normal routine. I had chronic cuffitis and recurring pouchitis those early years. I took maximum Imodium then, along with Azulfidine for the cuffitis. I still have recurring cuffitis flares, but not too often now.

Things have improved since then for me. About 10 years post op I was diagnosed with enteropatic arthritis. My rheumy increased my Azulfidine dose and put me on biologics. My pouch function improved with that medication. I eat pretty much everything and I sleep through on most nights. I still take Imodium, but only 4 a day, instead of the 8 I first took for years. Some people would consider their pouch a failure because they need medication, but I am happy there are medications that work. I think life is too short to fret about that, and I'd rather rejoice about what is good.

I didn't really have a choice in regard to having surgery, other than j-pouch or ileostomy. If I chose to keep my colon, I'd be dead. Not really much of an option, I think. So, nature taking its course, for me, would not be better than having a few more bowel movements than other people.

Jan

19 years w/jpouch, and the numbers have varied wildly throughout the years. Early years: anywhere from 12-20/day, but I don't really recall this being a huge problem for me (although it was for my surgeon); years 10-16 or so, still 12-20/day, plus anywhere from 3-8 at night (mostly accidents) - probably due to the perfect storm: fistulas forming, pouchitis, and cuffitis - this became a very huge problem.

However, since these 3 issues are currently being addressed, down to maybe 6-8/day, 1-2/night. Very pleased with these numbers.

I no longer track the number during the days either, but can't help but note the night-time trips. I don't take bowel-slowers or any fiber, but I do take 750 mg. augmentim/day. I eat mostly everything I want, but still take only small portions of everything.

At the moment, I certainly feel like I can't complain about frequency.

Yes, Jan makes a very good point. Bathroom trips become just another part of your daily routine, so after a time, you really don't notice it anymore. It's natural to want to count in the beginning, but I don't anymore; in fact, even on days when I decide I might just "count for fun," I usually forget by the afternoon and lose track anyway. That's how little I actually think about it. Also, I'm one of those people who often ends up doing a bit of #2 when I think I only have to do #1, so that can skew frequency as well. The point is, despite what your surgeon says, there really isn't a "magic number" for bowel movements. Surgeons will usually try to peg this at 4-6, but truthfully, it's pretty subjective. Anyway, from reading this forum, I would say that the average for most of us is probably 8 trips a day. The fact is, while 8 bathroom trips may be perfectly fine for one person, another may find that to be excessively high. So a lot of it is your own perception as well. Hopefully we can all achieve a balance that is comfortable for our own lifestyle. That is all we can really ask for.

quote:

Just curious, of the post on this forum from old time pouchers, how many use supplements like immodium and medamucil?

Starting around year...6ish?...(something like that) I stopped needing any of that. Right now I take VSL daily and something for GERD but am otherwise off all medication. It was a big step to not need that anymore.

I'm not a long time j-pouchers by no means (takedown was 1 week ago) but Spooky is definitely right that there is no magic number that the surgeons could give you on frequency. My surgeon told me that things would be "fast and furious" right after takedown but should slow down. Well it just so happens that I have only had to go about 2-3 times and none at night since takedown. The most I have gone in one day was 5 and that was just because I ate a lot that day and I probably could have actually combined a couple of those trips but just decided to empty when it was convenient since the bathroom was right there! Lol I was worried at first about not going as much as others I have read but after consulting with veterans on this site just consider myself lucky now since I feel great. I'm sure there will be good and bad days but I am extremely satisfied with the 2-3 BMs a day right now since I was expecting more like 10. Just goes to show how different we all are so there is no definate number to go by. I also don't take anything to slow things down or thicken up my stool. I could be wrong but one of my theory's is maybe it depends how much of the rectum is left as a stub when they attached the j pouch? I'm no doctor an don't have much knowledge about this kind of stuff but is that a possibility that even minor changes in the amount of rectum left would affect frequency or continence? I would be interested in finding out why some people go a lot and some go very little when we have all had the same surgery.

I have 2-3 BMs a day , 0 at night.

Let's stop the bickering and personal attacks please. This topic is not a referendum on the j-pouch, but a query on typical function for each person.

Jan

I usually average 8 BM within a 24 hour period. Maybe more. And this is a good day for me. My typical day during the work weekd, when the alamr rings, I have a BM. Shower, dress eat a light breakfase then have to use the bathroom again for the 2nd BM.

Before noon, 3rd bowel movement. Eat luch at 1:00, then 4th bowel movement. Before I leave for work, 5th bowel movement. Come home from work, 6th BM. Eat dinner, 7th BM. Between dinner and 11:00, 2 more BM making it 9 BM.
During the night, I wake up and have another BM, so that makes 10 BM.

Honestly, I never keep track of how many times I go because when I used to, it would get me aggravted and cause stress.

My frequency probably is due to a number of factors. Had a major bowel obstruction in 1999 where 32 inches of small bowel had to be removed due to Gangrene. My J Pouch was created in 1994.

I guess my diet is really poor and I get pouchitis all the time. I am currently not on Probiotics so will be buying some shortly.

I envy some of you. If I had 4 to 6 BM's a day, that would be really great.

Rocket

Thanks Jan. You are correct.

We all have a different personal experience and I honestly feel for anyone who is struggling. This is a very difficult and traumatic surgery to go through and we don't always get the results we want. I will continue to pray for all of us. I hope we will all get better and/or continue to stay well. Every day is a gift.

God Bless.

Rocket - sorry for what you are going through. It must be very difficult. I hope things improve for you. Hang in there.

quote:

I usually average 8 BM within a 24 hour period. Maybe more. And this is a good day for me. My typical day during the work weekd, when the alamr rings, I have a BM. Shower, dress eat a light breakfase then have to use the bathroom again for the 2nd BM.

Before noon, 3rd bowel movement. Eat luch at 1:00, then 4th bowel movement. Before I leave for work, 5th bowel movement. Come home from work, 6th BM. Eat dinner, 7th BM. Between dinner and 11:00, 2 more BM making it 9 BM.
During the night, I wake up and have another BM, so that makes 10 BM.

Honestly, I never keep track of how many times I go because when I used to, it would get me aggravted and cause stress.

My frequency probably is due to a number of factors. Had a major bowel obstruction in 1999 where 32 inches of small bowel had to be removed due to Gangrene. My J Pouch was created in 1994.

I guess my diet is really poor and I get pouchitis all the time. I am currently not on Probiotics so will be buying some shortly.

I envy some of you. If I had 4 to 6 BM's a day, that would be really great.

Rocket

I feel the same way you do Rocket. I just have too many BM's per day to ever feel comfortable with myself. About my only way around it when I'm out and on the road is to starve myself or know where all the restrooms are hiding

So, Dog Day, what is your average day like? How many bowel movements do you have and what do you do to try to mitigate it? Perhaps there is something you haven't tried?

Jan

Thanks for addressing me by my poster name Jan I've had my pouch for so long now, I don't know what I haven't tried. I do keep my eyes open here for any new ideas I haven't tried yet. I never thought I'd have to watch my diet this closely before I chose my J Pouch. That was long before the internet was rolling and I could only find so much information about pouches then. I only wish the internet was around back then, it would have made me think twice about this surgery.

Yeah, when I got my j-pouch, it was pretty slim pickins' on the internet, and truth be told, they did not have a lot of data anyway. But, even with all this time and many, many people reporting, there really is no consensus in regard to what is right or wrong for any individual pouch.

People just want a rule book, not "trial and error." Plus, things change within the same person, so you cannot even count on yourself! But, it is what it is, and we just make the best of it, trying to learn from each other. I didn't even know I had pouchitis until I was treated for food poisoning and realized how good my function could be... You just get used to "not so great," and you forget what "pretty darn good" is like.

Jan

I can only speak for myself of course but even if the j pouch isn't perfect, I will take it any day over that horrid, diseased colon I had inside me. I think most j pouchers who sufferd with severe UC would attest to that.

I have had my pouch for 15 years! I would say somewhere between 6-8 times a day but it varies. I only take generic lomotil. I asked my surgeon, Dr Harris, the same question and he said its hard to get results because everyone takes their medication differently. I think it is a personal preference to how you feel. I take 2 lomotil in the morning and then I don't go all day (I'm a teacher) and then when I am home I use the bathroom as needed. I don't get up at night ever!!!! If I am going out for the night, then I will take a few lomotil pills to be comfortable. But I agree with someone else's previous post I have complete control and its a million times better than UC. Its a personal preference. Best wishes!

The number of times doesn't bother me it's the pain I'm still having 18 months after take down. I still would choose the surgeries over and over again and wish I'd had them years before I did. Hopefully I will not have to take pain medication forever but if I do I do, I am alive. If I'd let nature take it's course I wouldn't be alive to feel the pain.

Some of us see the surgeries as a second chance and some of us prefer to be bitter. That's the difference between us all, some see the glass half full and other's see it empty. Viva la difference.

Some of us were at death's door and had no choice. Some of us could see it coming and chose to bail before we didn't have the choice. Some people were feeling fine one day and a week later had to have the surgeries, FAP'ers.

Each person a different story. We are all a like and yet all different.