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I'm a J-Poucher from Shanghai, China. (40 Male). I dxed UC in 2007 and had my J-pouch in 2016.  One month after my pouch reversal, pouchitis symptoms emerged, And in the later endoscopy examination, the doctor found inflammation and ulcers in my pouch. During that time battling with chronicle pouchitis. I used several antibiotics and biologics. There were ups and downs. When the time turned to 2020, I switched my medication to Entivyo because of insufficient responses from Remicade and Humira. The symptoms started to deteriorate. Frequent incontinence occurs which is unacceptable to me.  I'm tired of endless treatment and asked my surgeon for an ileostomy. He gave me an end ileostomy, and then everything improved. I can enjoy any food I want to have. And my weight has been gained since then.

My current problem is diversion pouchitis. In the first one and a half years from pouch diversion, there was no symptom. Like the artificial organ never existed except for routine mucus discharge daily. But from the beginning of this year, I started to feel uncomfortable in my pouch.  Sometimes, suddenly felt pain, and spasms in my pouch, followed by a large amount of mucus discharge uncontrollable. Can't hold it for a minute. Very smelly. However, metronidazole can help alleviate the symptoms. But it doesn't go away fully. Somedays were good without apparent symptoms, while the other days were bad.

For this problem, I consulted with several surgeons about pouch removal. Their opinions were quite different. The surgeon who formed my J-Pouch is retired. My current surgeon, the Senior surgeon who works in the hospital in which I had the J-pouch and also one of the best IBD surgeons in Shanghai, said the pouch removal is the way to fix the problem permanently. If I decide to get rid of it, he can do it. He has done around ten pouch removal surgeries previously.  And he also mentioned the surgery is  tricky. The operating difficulty depends on how extensive the adhesion is. However, before opening my abdomen, you never know.  He said that compared with the pouch removal surgery he rather perform a pouch formation surgery. But another two junior surgeons under the senior surgeon don't recommend solving the problem by surgical way. They think within such a big surgery there are some unpredictable facts. It isn't worth risking it unless you have to (for example precancerosis.)

Regarding the pouch removal surgery, I also talked with three other top surgeons who are not based in Shanghai via telephone consultation. Two of them think that removing the pouch is the best solution. And they both said the surgery is not as scary as I think.  While the remaining surgeon thinks the same as the junior surgeon mentioned above, from a technically difficult angle and risk-benefit perspective.

I saw the posts on the forum. It seems American surgeons tend to remove the pouch after diversion. I'm curious whether the pouch removal is a must in such a circumstance. And what consequence will be if J-Pouch is abandoned for lifelong?

BTW, since Shen Bo is from China, some top IBD GIs and Surgeons including my current surgeon have strong connections with him. For this connection, my current surgeon trained at Cleveland Clinic a decade year ago. Contributed by rapid industrialization and stressful urban lifestyle, the incidence rate of IBD has dramatically increased in the past decade in China. Especially Crohn's disease.

Tags: pouch, surgeon, J-pouch, remove

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You are getting pretty good advice, and it’s not surprising that they disagree. The decision about whether to remove the pouch at this point is based on the risks, which surgeons know something about, and how the symptoms are affecting your life, which they don’t know anything about. You are fortunate that your surgeon has some experience at pouch removal, but of course it would be better if he had more experience. I think in your situation I’d go ahead with the surgery, but I’d ask the surgeon to be conservative - willing to abandon the removal during surgery if the risk of making things worse seems too great.

Scott F

Sorry to hear of your troubles, but you are doing all of the right things to try and ensure a successful outcome.

Surgical opinions will vary, but in this case, for me the surgeon who has actually has performed them and had the requisite experience is the one I would most listen to.

As Scott stated; it’s all about the risks at this point. You already have the osteomy, so what else can go wrong?

i know from personal experience that going into the pelvis caused permanent bladder disfunction. It’s a little better 3 years later, but damage to the surrounding tissues and organs during any surgery is always a risk.

the surgeon with the experience should be asked what his concerns are, how likely complications will arise and how often has he encountered them in 10 previous cases?

N
@Scott F posted:

You are getting pretty good advice, and it’s not surprising that they disagree. The decision about whether to remove the pouch at this point is based on the risks, which surgeons know something about, and how the symptoms are affecting your life, which they don’t know anything about. You are fortunate that your surgeon has some experience at pouch removal, but of course it would be better if he had more experience. I think in your situation I’d go ahead with the surgery, but I’d ask the surgeon to be conservative - willing to abandon the removal during surgery if the risk of making things worse seems too great.

Thanks Scott. I believe its the time to build up my courage to move forward. Coincidentally, another my pouch friend who suffered the same problem (diversion pouchitis) was admitted in the hospital yesterday due to intense pouch pain and uncontrollable mucus discharge. She was told the same by my surgeon if she want to fix the problem permanently. The solution is to remove the pouch. Also mentioned to her the surgery is big and technical difficult. Her surgical record is more complicated than mine since she undergone several rounds pouch advancement surgeries previously. I plan to make the appointment with my surgeon on this Saturday to book the surgery. A little selfishly, I want to have the surgery after hers. My surgeon might pay extra attention in my surgery if he encounted any problem in hers.  However, hope she and I both have the best outcome as we can.

J
Last edited by Jiajun

Update

I just had my pouch removed on Wednesday. Prior to the operatioon, the surgeon did a pouch endoscopy ,  My diversion pouch's condition was very poor, severe inflammtion alone wiith a lot of ulcers inside it. Its the time to get rid of it. My surgery lasted around 5 hours. In terms of the senior surgeon who performed the surgery described, my intestine adhesion like a pan cake, its extreme diffcult to release . Fortunately, they did it. They opend me up and took my pouch out from my abdominal instead of anal area.They sewed and closed me up inside the anal canal. For post surgery recovery, I would say its more tougher than the stage of coloproctectomy and pouch formation.  Especial, the second day like in the hell. Extreme pain. Only strong pain killer can help. From the third day, it became better. I could off-bed and walk several steps.  Now is the fifth day,much better. but still pain and two drainage tube linked my incision area.

J
Last edited by Jiajun
@Jiajun posted:

Update

I just had my pouch removed on Wednesday. Prior to the operatioon, the surgeon did a pouch endoscopy ,  My diversion pouch's condition was very poor, severe inflammtion alone wiith a lot of ulcers inside it. Its the time to get rid of it. My surgery lasted around 5 hoursIn terms of the senior surgeon who performedl the surgery described, my intestine adhesion like a pan cake, its extreme diffcult to release . Fortunately, they did it. They opend me up and took my pouch out from my abdominal instead of anal area.They sewed and closed me up inside the anal canal. For post surgery recovery, I would say its more tougher than the stage of coloproctectomy and pouch formation.  Especial, the second day like in the hell. Extreme pain. Only strong pain killer can help. From the third day, it became better. I could off-bed and walk several steps.  Now is the fifth day,much better. but still pain and two drainage tube linked my incision area.

Get well.  Heal well.



It's a tough surgery to go through.

I've done it.

It only gets better  now.

Richard.

Mysticobra

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