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If you don't want to read my whole shpeel, my general question is why and how does Cipro/Flagy control my flare ups, and why does my stool become solid while taking both, however is pure liquid when taking neither. It cant be either or, it has to be both taken together 3 times and twice daily in order to work for me, IV Cipro/Flagyl stops my flare in its tracks every-time, and I am released on oral maintenance.

Hello fellow pouches, I am facing a dilemma and it has been a problem for many years now. I had a total colectomy and my rectum removed and pouch put in about 5 years ago. Ever since my takedown surgery it has been nothing but pure liquid stools and lots and lots of gas. After countless visits, hospital stays, and experimenting I have found what works to control my pouchitis. It is Cipro/Flagyl combo. Not one, but both must be ingested by me in order to have solid stools. If I am flaring badly, I go to the hospital and within 1 day of IV Cipro/Flagyl I have formed stool again. When I am home, if I go without my Cipro/Flagyl for more than a few days, it goes back to pure liquid and lots of gas. Once I begin taking the Cipro/Flagy again, within 2-3 days I am haivng solid, completely formed stool.



What is happening? How are the antibiotics controlling my pouchitis and why do antibiots give me solid stool? When I ahve solid stool, it tells me that I am not flaring.

Example: I was recently incarcerated for about 2 months. The intake doctor listened to me, and gave me Cipro/Flagyl and mesalamine enemas. After 7 days the script expired and I was without any medication for several weeks other then mesalamine. The mesalamine only gave me a small amount of releif, still watery stools that were just a little easier to get out and looked a little more solid, but definitely no where near the consistency of my stool when it is controlled with Antibiotics . After putting in numerous complaints and grievances I finally saw a doctor, who agreed to put me on Flagyl alone. This BARELY made a difference adn again expired after 7 days leaving me to suffer with no medication other than mesalamine enemas. Once I was released I began taking Cipro Flagyl and had my flare under control in less than a week, however I admitted myself to the ER and it took IV Cipro/Flagyl to get my flare under control. They also gave me IV steroids and sent home with a taper however steroids do nothing for me other than make me nervous and shaky/jittery. I was on Remicaide and it did not seem to be doing much, my Dr.'s are hesitant to put me back on Remicaide since the Antibiotics help me so much. I must mention that before I was hospitalized I ran out of Flagyl and was taking Cipro alone, and that is why I began to flare again so I ruled out that Cipro alone does not work for me, neither does flagyl alone, it has to be the combination.

I cant be on Cipro/Flagyl forever.. Can I? I also tried Xifaxin for SIBO treatment along with a low fodmap diet for months and that did not work.

The only relief I get is from taking Cipro 500mg Twice daily, and Flagyl 500mg 3 Times Daily.

I have taken VSL #3 before, along with the combo and the only difference I noticed was additional gas and a somewhat "good" feeling in my stomach minutes after taking them, as if it satisfied a craving.

I am curious if the strongest dose of VSL 3 daily could have the same effects on my Pouchitis as taking Cipro/Flagyl. I would love to switch out VSL 3 over my antibiotics however it is so expensive. Has anyone heard of a way to get Medicare to pay for VSL #3?

Any input would be great, I cannot be convinced that Cirpo/Flagyl is not working to control my Pouchitis as I live this everyday, and have for years. I have had one doctor tell me that I will be on the Cipro/Flagyl combo for life, and other doctors saying that they didn't agree with the treatment and that eventually they would no longer work for me. It's been roughly 3 years that I have been on Cipro/Flagyl regularly. I was told maybe a lower dose of both would be the best long term option.



I use mesalamine Enemas and Suppositories (I have both, depends how I am feeling for the day or if I have time for an enema, if not I'll pop in a suppository and go on with my day, and have a large bowel movement about an hour after like clockwork every-time.

Recently I have to push on my stomach to empty my pouch, being incarcerated with a J-pouch was pure torture and I don't think my pouch would have lasted much longer in there. Passing gas was nearly impossible without alerting several people and the stage fright alone made it hard to go #2 not to mention having a pouchitis flare on top of that. My recent pouchoscopy only shows inflammation at my anal area and IO have a fistula with a seton placement.

Why does Cipro/Flagyl control my flares?

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That reminds me a lot of my own pouch history. I've had chronic pouchitis + ileitis since my takedown in 2004.

Flagyl + Cipro always helped me. When I was given that combo for the first time in hospital some weeks after takedown, I thought now everything would go the right way and my digestive problems would be gone. But I only was given those antibiotics when I was really bad off, usually prescribed by doctors in hospital, and only for about 10 days. Antibiotics are not so generously prescribed here in Germany.

It's only been for the last 2 years that I'm using Cipro+Flagyl regularly, at first for some days and with a pause of some weeks in between. For the last 6 months I had a chronic use of both. That was the best time I had with the pouch, with a stable health and digestion, only 4 to 5 BM a day. Untreated it was about 7 to 10 BM with more fluid.

So if the antibiotics combo helps you I would recommend to take it for a longer time and find a mimimum dosage needed. During the last year I started with 500 mg Cipro and 400 mg Flagyl twice a day. After three days things had cleared up and I could reduce to once a day, at late evening, some hours after the last meal. I also reduced the dosage step by step to 250 mg Cipro + 200 mg Flagyl, that still works for me.

The second IBD med I take is Entocort, for 8 years now. Most of the time it was one capsule twice a day. It worked the way mesalamine does for you, it soothed inflammation a little bit. Currently I have to take only one capsule (3 mg of budesonide) with dinner. Taking too little gets me pouchitis / cuffitis symptoms.

I also had a VSL#3 treatment around 2007, but it had hardly any effect. At the moment I take a probiotic with 20 bacteria stems in the morning, just hoping to have a little balance for antibiotics use.

Scott F wrote in some of his posts, that he had to fight for years to get payment for VSL#3 from his insurance. So perhaps you compare yourself if you need a high strength probiotic or if a cheaper supplement is sufficient (or if it helps at all).

I was off antibiotics recently for some days, hardly a week, because I wanted to know if something had changed after 6 months of antbiotics use. But as always my digestion got worse after 3 days. I can't tell what it ist, there is not so much more diarrhoea and I had only about 6...7 BM a day (with more fluid of course). In the end I lost 3 kg of weight and all the problems started again. I can only guess that it has to do with a microbioma estabishing at the end of the bowel and the pouch, triggering an IBD reaction to bacteria and / or their metabolic products.

If you want to find an alternative to antibiotics you can still do so. I have tried several in the past years, but none of them made change for me: Remicade, Entyvio, azathioprine, Stelara, Xeljanz and a Humira biosimilar.

SteveG

Cipro + Flagyl has been working fine for me for years. No one really knows exactly why antibiotics are so effective for pouchitis. I do suggest gradually lowering the dosages to find the minimum necessary amount of medication, to minimize the side effects. It’s also generally better with a pouch to have very soft stools (like pudding or porridge) rather than solid. These are easier to empty from a J-pouch. Liquid stools are unpleasant, of course.

I do get better results with a maximum dose of VSL #3 (four double strength “900” packets per day).

Scott F
Last edited by Scott F

Wow - thanks for sending along.  Are you taking all of those at the same time?  Sorry to ask another question, but why are you not on the standard Cipro/Flagyl combo?  I am pretty discouraged that the side effects of Cipro/Flagyl eliminate those as options for me.  As such, I am grateful for the names of the other antibiotics that you have provided.  Separately, I am so burned-out with my Jpouch only after one year.  The Pouchitis has been bad for the last 6 months.  I am considering speaking to my surgeon about excising the JPouch for a permanent ileostomy, but it is such a huge step.  I would prefer to fight the Pouchitis further.  My surgeon is also very pro-pouch so I am not sure if he would even entertain removing the JPouch.  I feel pretty trapped and dumb for even going for the JPouch.  It has been hard on my family and career.

DK
@Doug K posted:

Wow - thanks for sending along.  Are you taking all of those at the same time?  Sorry to ask another question, but why are you not on the standard Cipro/Flagyl?

Your posts said you couldn't handle Cipro and Flagyl and asked for OTHER suggestions, so I answered your question. As to the separate question of what I have taken- in 30 years of treating pouchitis I have taken all the ones mentioned in this thread and a bunch of others. I didn't mention others in the Cipro family of floraquilones  like Levaquin. I am taking Vancomycin because after being off antibiotics for around 3 years after effective treatment with Remicade and subsequent slippage, my doctor wanted me to try an antibiotic I hadn't been on. Vancomycin was literally the only antibiotic on the market I hadn't been tried on. Now I have taken them all. Unlike others, side effects with any antibiotic aren't a question with me, I can handle all of them. The only issue is efficacy of the drug.

CTBarrister
Last edited by CTBarrister

Tindamax is also sometimes used for pouchitis. Other things to consider: perhaps Zofran could reduce or eliminate the nausea from the Flagyl. I’d sure try maximum dose VSL #3 for at least a few weeks before considering pouch removal. Heck, if my antibiotics stopped being an effective option I’d be trying biologics.

Scott F

Tindamax I have used under generic name Tinidazole. It's in the same antibiotic family as flagyl. You have to keep in mind the families of antibiotics because if one sickens you a cousin antibiotic might. Flagyl and tindamax are cousins in the nitroimidizole family much like cipro and levacquin are in the floraquilone family. So use the relative antibiotics at your own risk. At a minimum, as Scott suggested, have Zofran at the ready when you experiment with cousin antibiotics of ones that previously sickened you.

https://m.goodrx.com/nitroimidazole-antibiotics

CTBarrister
Last edited by CTBarrister

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