Slouchy, one possibility is Lomotil. It’s a prescription medication, so it doesn’t serve your personal liberation goals, but it seems reasonably priced (though it would feel less so at 10 pills per day). I’d suggest at least calling your pharmacy to find out how much it would cost. It’s the closest thing to Imodium that’s available (that isn’t Imodium). In any case, I hope you find a doctor with whom you can have a less adversarial, more constructive partnership.

I’d advise against that much Pepto-Bismol, but you might get good (maybe even better) results from combining reasonable doses of more than one product - some Imodium, some Pepto-Bismol, some psyllium fiber, etc.

Slouchy, you could also see about getting a prescription for Immodium (Kirkland Brand) through your doctor and compare the costs between the Lomotil and the Immodium.  When Costco started limiting how much you could get, the clerk at the pharmacy suggested getting the prescription.  You may find it less expensive doing it that way.

Pepto Bismol really does a good job but you do have to be careful with it as it will screw up your “liver stats” if taken in excessive dosages. I think you can take a max of 8 pills in 24 hours if I recall correctly. I like liquid PB better. Does the job well for me but I use it more as a bactericidal when antibiotics aren’t working well than as an antidiarrheal. I have taken PB for common diarrhea however and it gave me almost immediate relief without overthickening stools like Imodium does for me. My stash of loperamide comes from Walmart. It’s really not that expensive there. 24 pills for $2.78

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Equ...hEAQYASABEgJ9Q_D_BwE

They also have a cheaper value size. Like 100 pills for $8.99

CTB23 posted:

Slouchy, you could also see about getting a prescription for Immodium (Kirkland Brand) through your doctor and compare the costs between the Lomotil and the Immodium.  When Costco started limiting how much you could get, the clerk at the pharmacy suggested getting the prescription.  You may find it less expensive doing it that way.

 

 

---

 

Cash at my dose was around 170 per month from the Pharmacy but it was well over a year ago when I checked so I could be fuzzy. Still, compare that to 10 dollars per month cash OTC with 7 dollar 400 pill packs of yesteryear. 

CTBarrister posted:

Pepto Bismol really does a good job but you do have to be careful with it as it will screw up your “liver stats” if taken in excessive dosages. I think you can take a max of 8 pills in 24 hours if I recall correctly. I like liquid PB better. Does the job well for me but I use it more as a bactericidal when antibiotics aren’t working well than as an antidiarrheal. I have taken PB for common diarrhea however and it gave me almost immediate relief without overthickening stools like Imodium does for me. My stash of loperamide comes from Walmart. It’s really not that expensive there. 24 pills for $2.78

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Equ...hEAQYASABEgJ9Q_D_BwE

They also have a cheaper value size. Like 100 pills for $8.99

CT, 2.78 is extremely expensive for 24 pills. It used to cost 7 dollars for 400 pills at Costco. On the bright side I did find a workaround if I choose to execute. I can order bulk material out of China, maybe 300 bucks for 3-5 years worth. The drawback is being arrested for importing and also having to measure out powder doses on a scale every morning. 

Scott F posted:

Slouchy, one possibility is Lomotil. It’s a prescription medication, so it doesn’t serve your personal liberation goals, but it seems reasonably priced (though it would feel less so at 10 pills per day). I’d suggest at least calling your pharmacy to find out how much it would cost. It’s the closest thing to Imodium that’s available (that isn’t Imodium). In any case, I hope you find a doctor with whom you can have a less adversarial, more constructive partnership.

I’d advise against that much Pepto-Bismol, but you might get good (maybe even better) results from combining reasonable doses of more than one product - some Imodium, some Pepto-Bismol, some psyllium fiber, etc.

Hehe, thanks for the measured response. I don't really have adversarial relationships with anyone. If someone is a turd I just move on to the next person. That is an exhausting and expensive approach but it has kept me alive where others may have just died. I have a lot of complex medical issues. Heck, I'm even in the Mayo Clinic books. I'm famous!

I've had some fantastic doctors who were simultaneously wonderful people but they eventually retire or move on due to their life circumstances. Things change. 

I'll try the combo approach. Thanks for that. 

Opiate hysteria is a funny thing. If I go to a doc for dehydration/diarrhea I'll end up going moving something much more regulated and dangerous like tincture of opium. Oh the irony. I hear that works better than anything else but is obviously the most regulated. I've found certain compounding pharmacies to have reasonable pricing. Maybe 2 out of 10 but you can find them if you live in a large enough city area. 

On a side note I looked over one of the cases ex FDA chief Scott Gottlieb used to justify yanking imodium. A gal who was a  heroin addict used around 200mg of imodium per day for about 12 months. She had heart issues and was constantly fainting. They used that as an example of drug misuse and danger but really, all that shows is how safe imodium is. Try that will advil and you will be dead within hours. I bet swallowing a handful of multivitmains will kill you. Drink more than 2 liters of water per hour and you are going to be deader than a doornail fast.

On the bright side Gottlieb resigned last week citing stress & family but the real story was his opposition broke their collective feet in his butt while kicking him out the door. I sure hope he doesn't need pelvis surgery because he's going to have a heart attack from all of those NSAIDs he's promoting.

To make his mark promoting opiate hysteria he succeeded at harming 1.6 million people with bowel diseases and similar disorders because of a few junkies and their actions. 

It is pure tragedy for us and the junkies. You don't see this hysteria in other developed countries because they have social programs that are available to addicts. Here, it's whack-a-mole every time the clandestine chemists figure out how to tweak an existing OTC drug to get the junkies high. Our gov bans substances instead of just spending cash on helping the addicts. It's a lose lose for everyone. 

Slouchy, I know.  It’s pretty crazy.  I used to get the Kirkland brand loperamide for about 6.00 for 400.  I also would buy them for my sister, no problem.  Now you get 36 for 1.29 but you’re restricted in how often you can buy them.  So, I switched to Lomotil, and I also buy the Immodium as well.  Have you checked to see how much Immodium is with a prescription at Costco?  I haven’t myself, but may in the future.

slouchypouch posted:

It is pure tragedy for us and the junkies. You don't see this hysteria in other developed countries because they have social programs that are available to addicts. Here, it's whack-a-mole every time the clandestine chemists figure out how to tweak an existing OTC drug to get the junkies high. Our gov bans substances instead of just spending cash on helping the addicts. It's a lose lose for everyone. 

I really like your irreverant and tell it like it is writing style.  It's rare on this board but also refreshing and amusing, to the extent that humor creeps in on a board like this one and on a topic like this.

I have the perspective that the few bad apples spoil it for the many and governments tend to have knee jerk reactions to media exposes on abuses within any industry.  There was a very impactful 60 Minutes report a couple of years ago on the opiate additiction epidemic and how and why it got out of hand.  60 Minutes's report focused on how the big pharmaceutical companies with their not so clandestine chemists and the State of Florida, which non-regulates, and more specifically Delray Beach, Florida, became a haven for pain management clinics whose businesses consisted of giving out opiates like so much candy.  In Delray Beach, there were dozens of such facilities lining the main street in the city by 2010 or so- more prevalent than pizza shops and ice cream parlors.  All it took was a few well publicized overdose deaths, some lawsuits and complaints from the families and then first the DEA, and then the media (60 Minutes) were all over it.  Doctors were sent to prison with long jail terms.  I recall one of the jailed Doctors gave an interview to Ed Bradley but walked out during the interview when Bradley went after him a bit, unable to answer or handle the tough questions.

As a personal injury attorney who represents both injured individuals and the insured persons and business entities causing those injuries, my job frequently intersects with many of these issues- pain medication addiction, specifically.  I have had some clients who had legitimate work related injuries, developed pain issues from their chronic injuries, went to pain management clinics for treatment, and became addicts.  Personally, I think it's hard for people when they are out of work due to an injury or illness, and opiate and alcohol addiction can develop in these situations very quickly when a person is getting a stream of medicine for legitimate or perhaps semi-legitimate injuries.

One of my high school classmates, a Medical Doctor/internist, is now in federal prison because one of his patients died of an overdose of opiate meds he was prescribing her.  From what I read in news reports, she drove over 180 miles to see him (red flag number 1- how many people here drive 180 miles to see your primary care doctor???) and the local pharmacist called him to warn him she was an addict and that he should not be prescribing her opiate meds (red flag number 2).  She OD'd, died, the family raised hell with the State licensing authority, then the DEA got involved and investigated and found he prescribed the 7th most opiates of anyone in the State of CT- and he was just an internist.  They also found out that he was billing Medicare for patients he never treated, and that kind of sealed his fate.

We tend as a society to overreact to these really bad abusive situations when they are exposed in the media.  As you aptly stated, it's a game of Whack-A-Mole, where the "victimized" family members of the deceased, their attorneys and politicians all promote knee jerk legislation, bills and regulation, which is really just to provide them with appeasement and gain political capital for those in power.  However, these actions are like applying a salve that is temporary and mostly ineffective at solving the problem and do not address the long term issue or its consequences.  Legislation and regulation drive up costs, and it also leads to the junkies turning back to the streets for sustenance, where it's a total buyer beware situation with fentanyl being mixed in with heroin (and probably also with imodium in unknown quantities), making the smallest dosages potentially fatal in someone who hasn't built up a tolerance, as rock star Prince found out.  There is probably some street imodium being sold at or below the prices you mentioned, but the stuff from China is probably safer.

So maybe my math is screwy, but $2.78 for 24 pills is 12 cents per pill.  At ten pills per day that’s $1.16 per day, or less than $35/month. So the price has gone up more than it should, kind of like many other drugs, but nothing like the $200 being talked about. And that’s buying them 24 at a time.

CTBarrister posted:

slouchypouch posted:

It is pure tragedy for us and the junkies. You don't see this hysteria in other developed countries because they have social programs that are available to addicts. Here, it's whack-a-mole every time the clandestine chemists figure out how to tweak an existing OTC drug to get the junkies high. Our gov bans substances instead of just spending cash on helping the addicts. It's a lose lose for everyone. 

I really like your irreverant and tell it like it is writing style.  It's rare on this board but also refreshing and amusing, to the extent that humor creeps in on a board like this one and on a topic like this.

I have the perspective that the few bad apples spoil it for the many and governments tend to have knee jerk reactions to media exposes on abuses within any industry.  There was a very impactful 60 Minutes report a couple of years ago on the opiate additiction epidemic and how and why it got out of hand.  60 Minutes's report focused on how the big pharmaceutical companies with their not so clandestine chemists and the State of Florida, which non-regulates, and more specifically Delray Beach, Florida, became a haven for pain management clinics whose businesses consisted of giving out opiates like so much candy.  In Delray Beach, there were dozens of such facilities lining the main street in the city by 2010 or so- more prevalent than pizza shops and ice cream parlors.  All it took was a few well publicized overdose deaths, some lawsuits and complaints from the families and then first the DEA, and then the media (60 Minutes) were all over it.  Doctors were sent to prison with long jail terms.  I recall one of the jailed Doctors gave an interview to Ed Bradley but walked out during the interview when Bradley went after him a bit, unable to answer or handle the tough questions.

As a personal injury attorney who represents both injured individuals and the insured persons and business entities causing those injuries, my job frequently intersects with many of these issues- pain medication addiction, specifically.  I have had some clients who had legitimate work related injuries, developed pain issues from their chronic injuries, went to pain management clinics for treatment, and became addicts.  Personally, I think it's hard for people when they are out of work due to an injury or illness, and opiate and alcohol addiction can develop in these situations very quickly when a person is getting a stream of medicine for legitimate or perhaps semi-legitimate injuries.

One of my high school classmates, a Medical Doctor/internist, is now in federal prison because one of his patients died of an overdose of opiate meds he was prescribing her.  From what I read in news reports, she drove over 180 miles to see him (red flag number 1- how many people here drive 180 miles to see your primary care doctor???) and the local pharmacist called him to warn him she was an addict and that he should not be prescribing her opiate meds (red flag number 2).  She OD'd, died, the family raised hell with the State licensing authority, then the DEA got involved and investigated and found he prescribed the 7th most opiates of anyone in the State of CT- and he was just an internist.  They also found out that he was billing Medicare for patients he never treated, and that kind of sealed his fate.

We tend as a society to overreact to these really bad abusive situations when they are exposed in the media.  As you aptly stated, it's a game of Whack-A-Mole, where the "victimized" family members of the deceased, their attorneys and politicians all promote knee jerk legislation, bills and regulation, which is really just to provide them with appeasement and gain political capital for those in power.  However, these actions are like applying a salve that is temporary and mostly ineffective at solving the problem and do not address the long term issue or its consequences.  Legislation and regulation drive up costs, and it also leads to the junkies turning back to the streets for sustenance, where it's a total buyer beware situation with fentanyl being mixed in with heroin (and probably also with imodium in unknown quantities), making the smallest dosages potentially fatal in someone who hasn't built up a tolerance, as rock star Prince found out.  There is probably some street imodium being sold at or below the prices you mentioned, but the stuff from China is probably safer.

Thanks for that detailed response. I do get stuck in my black & white thinking ruts constantly. Kind responses are what bump me back out. 

How does a person such as myself affect positive change? What options are the most effective. Does writing to congress really help? I've been looking at pain groups which sponsor rallies but I'm not a very social person. 

A good narrative sells and I've got quite the life story to tell. I'd like to help instead of just complaining.

Scott F posted:

So maybe my math is screwy, but $2.78 for 24 pills is 12 cents per pill.  At ten pills per day that’s $1.16 per day, or less than $35/month. So the price has gone up more than it should, kind of like many other drugs, but nothing like the $200 being talked about. And that’s buying them 24 at a time.

Hey Scott, I don't disagree with you but the context matters in our situation. At 7 dollars for 400 pills, I was paying .0175 cents per pill. I take an average of 600mg per month. 24 pills = 48mg. So you are right, 12.5 boxes OTC would run me about 48 bucks a month. 

The problem beyond an unfair price increase is that I cannot go to Costco every 2 days and a box only covers me for 2 days. OTC imodium is now untenable for me and probably the vast majority of people in our situation. I predicted it would be behind the counter in 2017 and now I'm predicting that it will end up in a database system where we get carded and  boxes per month limits will apply. 

I just got off the phone with Costco and 600mg or 300 pills per month with a prescription is 154 dollars. 

I also grabbed the regional managers phone number so I am going to see if I can push a complaint up the chain. It'll probably get nowhere given the DEA's involvement but I'm going to do my best. 

I dug further into Chinese material options and a kilogram can be purchased for about 350 dollars. That would last me around 3 years but I'd have to live my life like a drug dealer and measure/weight my dose on a daily basis I really don't want to go that route. I can just imagine explaining to the police at the airport that my cocaine-looking powder is for chronic diarrhea. LOL 

What might be most effective is to identify who the lobbyists are for the company that makes the drug on the State and Federal levels, and join forces with them as one of the “faces” of the legitimately needy for this drug so as to humanize the other side of the issue.  The lobbyists for the pharmaceutical industry likely have a lot of power to counteract overly zealous regulation.

A friend of mine from law school is now the chief lobbyist for the beer industry in the USA. I was chatting with him not too long ago and I was amazed that he knew and was familiar with all the microbrewery operations in CT although he hasn’t lived here for 28 years and none of these places existed until after he left. You might want to identify who is doing the lobbying for the manufacturer and offer your assistance.

Slouchy, you’re absolutely right.  Each time I get loperamide from Costco, they write my name in a book and check it the next time to make sure I don’t come back too soon for more. I have good insurance through Tricare so I get the Lomotil covered by that.  Otherwise as you know, it’s quite expensive.  I use the loperamide more at night and Lomotil during the day.  Seems to do the job right now.  Are there any programs out there that may subsidize the cost for Lomotil for those without insurance?

CTB23 posted:

Slouchy, you’re absolutely right.  Each time I get loperamide from Costco, they write my name in a book and check it the next time to make sure I don’t come back too soon for more. I have good insurance through Tricare so I get the Lomotil covered by that.  Otherwise as you know, it’s quite expensive.  I use the loperamide more at night and Lomotil during the day.  Seems to do the job right now.  Are there any programs out there that may subsidize the cost for Lomotil for those without insurance?

Thanks for the info. 

At the moment I have a few months supply stashed so I have time to figure it out. 

I'm going to suck up my anger and probably go get on a much more dangerous/regulated bowel slower like codeine or tincture of opium. Can't remember if those are the exact drugs. Oh the irony, because opiates are dangerous and I can't have dangerous imodium I'll consume much more dangerous opiates

Compounding pharmacies can be relatively inexpensive. I've just got to price out the tinctures. 

I should have some insurance now but it's a hair-ball due to running a small business. I'm supposed to be on Obamacare but they booted me off due to not having my taxes done. Basically I can't prove my income at the moment. 

CTBarrister posted:

What might be most effective is to identify who the lobbyists are for the company that makes the drug on the State and Federal levels, and join forces with them as one of the “faces” of the legitimately needy for this drug so as to humanize the other side of the issue.  The lobbyists for the pharmaceutical industry likely have a lot of power to counteract overly zealous regulation.

A friend of mine from law school is now the chief lobbyist for the beer industry in the USA. I was chatting with him not too long ago and I was amazed that he knew and was familiar with all the microbrewery operations in CT although he hasn’t lived here for 28 years and none of these places existed until after he left. You might want to identify who is doing the lobbying for the manufacturer and offer your assistance.

Awesome advice. Thank you. I will at least genuinely attempt to connect to the lobbyists.

slouchypouch posted:

I've been taking 10 pills a day, or 20mg, which has given me the best quality of life since my j-pouch surgery in 2004. Now that the FDA has fucked me over by pushing vendors to stop selling in bulk, instead of under 10 bucks a month for my pills, it's going to be around 200+ for the same dose. I don't have insurance and even with insurance, it's much more expensive than it was OTC.

I looked at Indian pharmacies for imodium and they responded to the DEA pressure by pulling the drug from their stores. China still sells bulk powder but a 5 year supply was quoted at 8000.00 US dollars. So China jacked up their prices due to the FDA's opiate hysteria actions here at home. 

I'm wondering about Pepto Bismal. I know there are risks to overuse with a Colon but how about us J-pouchers? I may be able to substitute imodium by taking 5+ Pepto pills. 

Is there anything else OTC that I can try? Fiber doesn't work for me and I'm not interested in that angle. 

I feel it is unacceptable to have to go back to pill slavery under benevolent dictator doctors again. I've had my taste of freedom and now I'm fucking angry as hell. If I don't have my imodium or run out, or the doctor calls in sick and screws me on my medication refill, my liver stats go off the charts from the dehydration. It's a life-death situation for me, maybe not in a day or two, but eventually dehydration catches up. 

 

have you tried the generic form of immodium by CVS.  Very reasonable. I take the blue gel pill 3 times a day.  Works great.

grateful posted:

have you tried the generic form of immodium by CVS.  Very reasonable. I take the blue gel pill 3 times a day.  Works great.

No, and thank you. I like the positive connotation of your name. I need to be more grateful.

I'll check it out. I used to take very low doses of imodium but just wasn't being very mindful of how it affected me. 

It's important to safely test and iterate and it took me over a decade of having a pouch to really put a stop to everything and test foods/drugs.

I wish I would have had an experienced GI doc with a lot of patient variety to help me in the early years. 

You sorta on your own after they do the surgery.   They done their job (the surgeons) and now it’s up to us to make the best of it. I  have my  jpouch for 3 years now and still learning, experiencing  with all kinds of stuff, like food, medication, exercise, research etc. etc.  

It’s getting better every year.  I’ve had tremendous output in the beginning being on all kinds of medication and was miserable.  Now all I do is take 3 of these CVS generic loperamide, paregoric before each meal and organic pysillium.

Yes I am thankful and grateful..  I am alive and living it.  Years ago we would have been doomed.  Just imagine!!!

Oh, and I do take the VSL#3 capsules (3) every day.

I don’t know if it helps or has any benefits but It supposed to prevent pouchtis, which I have not had.  So it’s a mind/body thing for me. I feel good taking it.

grateful posted:

I don’t know if it helps or has any benefits but It supposed to prevent pouchtis, which I have not had.  So it’s a mind/body thing for me. I feel good taking it.

 

Interesting. I know I don't have pouchitis and did try VSL3 in the early days when it was cash only, no insurance coverage. It didn't help with BMs per day so I stopped taking it. I might be lucky in the sense of no pouchitis but I think I had a poor j-pouch result insofar as gut transit time issues.

My body just spews bile. With my last obstruction high up in the gut I was still cranking out liters of fluid via an NG tube pumping me out, long after my stomach was empty. It was just maybe a few feet of upper small intestine pumping out all of that juice. 

I'm curious what the average imodium dose is for most J-pouchers. I read some case studies in Europe where ileostomy patients were given well over 200mg via compounding pharmacies with incredible results. These people had severe short-bowel syndrome, though. 

I've got good length but my gut speed is unreal fast. 

So maybe I am a one-off situation where everyone else needs a minuscule dose of imodium. 

I only use a bowel slower at bedtime, when I need to *delay* everything for a few extra hours. Bowel slowers don’t decrease what’s passing through the gut (eating less does that), nor do they increase pouch capacity. Since I’m going to produce the same volume of stool in any case, I have modest expectations for what slowing things down can accomplish.

Awe, I know that constant BM’s and short transit time can be very trying and depressing. It took time with me to slow things down and I still have days that are not so good.   

I am curious as well how many Imodium jpouchers should safely take.  Going to Germany in July  and will check things out and get info.   Jpouch surgery is very common in Germany.  Will tell you all about it when I get back.

Scott F posted:

I only use a bowel slower at bedtime, when I need to *delay* everything for a few extra hours. Bowel slowers don’t decrease what’s passing through the gut (eating less does that), nor do they increase pouch capacity. Since I’m going to produce the same volume of stool in any case, I have modest expectations for what slowing things down can accomplish.

Scott, that just shows how much variation there is within our disease community. During my early years I took so little imodium in the morning that the doctor thought my liver was going to fail (unknowing it was related to the diarrhea). I couldn't eat much or leave the house.

I'd die without the imodium. Even during my two step procedure I had to have one of those battery powered IV fluid packs on full-time. I couldn't drink my way into hydration. It just wasn't possible.

Fluid intake is very tricky with me. I have to be very careful what time I eat and drink during the day. If I pound water with certain food it just causes me to shit it all out.

I'm trying out different intermittent fasting cycles. I think eating within a 4 hour window daily (entire calorie load) would be ideal for myself and probably a lot of j-pouchers. Getting past the adaptation phase of a severe diet change is the most difficult thing I've ever done. There's a lot of misinformation out there on diet, none of which is founded on evidence. Even going by feel is useless as it can take months to adapt to a change that feels terrible. Human beings were lucky to eat one meal a day in our distant past. We are very adaptable. 

grateful posted:

Awe, I know that constant BM’s and short transit time can be very trying and depressing. It took time with me to slow things down and I still have days that are not so good.   

I am curious as well how many Imodium jpouchers should safely take.  Going to Germany in July  and will check things out and get info.   Jpouch surgery is very common in Germany.  Will tell you all about it when I get back.

 

 

I want to go too. 

Here's what I'm looking at for imodium:

https://mkbio.en.alibaba.com/p...413.8.708c1b73s1lDBq

Even at my higher than usual dose this will last me around 3 years. 280 dollars. If that doesn't fly I'll just take a trip into Mexico once a year and pick up my life essential medications. In my old age I'm getting tired of being ripped off by US Pharma and insurance companies. There are too many people getting paid that add no value in our medical system.  

Thanks for the discussion all and I'm sorry if I ruffled feathers. It's at least in part my torrette syndrome and slew of personality disorders. LOL. I've found a couple workarounds which solves my immediate need. I'd still like to be able to affect making it accessible to all of us again. It doesn't make a ton of sense to limit the supply of an essential medicine. WHO said it was the 256th most prescribed medicine. Very important for us and cute little old ladies with incontinence.

Nobody talks about that part. Women give birth to children and in their golden years, those sphincter tears catch up to them. It's embarrassing for anyone to have to beg for imodium. 

Life is hard and simultaneously wonderful, eh?

Amen!

Haha, you’re funny and you DID NOT ruffle anyone’s feathers.  We jpouchers don’t ruffle ones feathers....we’re just in a terrible mood sometimes... for obvious reasons..😜

Maybe not ruffling feathers but I cause stress-induced peristalsis with my award winning bad attitude

You should have seen me as a youth. I'm a glass half-full nowadays, at least after each episode of narcissistic rage. Gotta have a sense of humor to keep from killing myself. LOL 

The cheapest option for Immodium that I have found is the Ship & Save subscription for the 200 ct bottles through CVS.  I'm paying on average $15/bottle, so still quadruple the price of what I paid for it from CVS, but since Wal-Mart stopped carrying the 200ct bottles, this is the most economical option I've found.  It is also nice that it is shipped right to my door on a pre-set frequency to make sure I don't run out.  

brmcguire posted:

The cheapest option for Immodium that I have found is the Ship & Save subscription for the 200 ct bottles through CVS.  I'm paying on average $15/bottle, so still quadruple the price of what I paid for it from CVS, but since Wal-Mart stopped carrying the 200ct bottles, this is the most economical option I've found.  It is also nice that it is shipped right to my door on a pre-set frequency to make sure I don't run out.  

Hey BR, it might be a good idea to buy extra in advance and stock up. It stands to reason that some vendors have ignored the DEA only temporarily until existing surplus stock runs out. That kind of pressure is serious business IMO. Adding to the issue is huge profit increases to CVS or anyone who goes with the DEA recommendation. It makes sense that they'll eventually clamp down like Costco did. 

I'm just being careful. I ordered that kilo from China so will post more about it after it shows up.