I am just wondering if a probiotic would help- link between gut bacteria and depression.  I am currently doing the SCD diet. But recently added Quest kidz Biotix probiotic. Maybe re-check ferritin levels.

Definitely think it is common in j-pouchers. Major surgery and complications would take its toll on anyone. 

Take care x

I think talking with people who have been through the same thing is important- to know you’re not alone and what you’re experiencing is normal. Have you talked to a counselor or professional? That might help. 

I like your question. And I'm hoping someone has an answer to this important issue: "gut makes up a good majority of our serotonin production." Because if we don't have it, then do we have less serotonin and are therefore likely to have depression? 

They are treating depression with probiotics now, so this is really important BUT must be really complicated by the fact we have no large colon! I am finding the Quest chewable Kids Biotix really positive, and I have tried allot of the usual ones like VSL and align previously 

I can't imagine that our pouches suddenly are able to make serotonin. So I wonder if probiotics would affect that aspect of our pouch function. Though I do use them for pouch health.

Hi Chris,

I am one of the 'oldies' on here in both pouch history (k pouch 1979) and pouch longevity.

I had been battling my colon since birth with different variations of ostomies etc since age 2...total colectomy at 19. 

Was it the origin of the depression? No. Did it contribute? Greatly.

As I told many a surgeon, shrink and GP...get rid of my disease and you can get rid of my depression. 

I called it a situational or circumstantial depression. Change the situation or circumstances and you change my outlook on life. 

Face it, our diseases are not sexy. They do not get the publicity of heart disease (the sexiest) or cancer (the #1 in emotional empathy) ...ours are the 'hide-it-under-the-table-and-do-not-mention-it-in-public kind of diseases. 

We have a smelly-stinky-bathroom-emergency kind of disease that either makes people laugh or turn their heads away and go 'ouuuu...yucky'.

We bleed and suffer from a body part that is the butt of every bad joke on the planet. 

So how could we possibly not be depressed? We can't talk about it, it is invisible to the outside world, most often they don't even believe that we are sick, we lock ourselves into bathrooms or poop ourselves when in bad flares, have bags pop and leak...we are the most 'unloved' disease out there next to maybe leprosy.

There are millions of us out there and it has been barely 10+ yrs (and thanks to internet and sites like this one) that we can finally reach others like us and talk about it.

This is a terribly depressing disease. But we do not need to be depressed. 

Does the colon have a 'happy hormone' that equalizes us that we have now lost forever or do we just hide out and suffer in silence in a word that shuns us? 

Either way, we are not a happy bunch when in an uncontrolled flare. 

I think that we deserve every ounce of depression that we feel...We own it because we have suffered for it. 

But, we can also fight biology with probiotics, relaxation techniques, meditation, yoga, great friends and a bottle of wine or a funny movie with a dog or a kid.

I used to fight with long walks, exercise and cooking...The only one left to me is cooking and my grandkids. 

I do not give in because that would mean that I have been fighting this fight for nothing and I am not ready to give up. 

So, even though I have no answers for you, I do have hope...And the belief that the sun does come up every morning, that there are always reasons to live and laugh if you just look for them and that if all else fails, there is prozac!

Cyber hugs from an old-timer

Sharon

Sharon, I could not have expressed those thoughts any better !

Thanks Bill...my ounce of 2018 optimism...talk to me in a week and it may all be upside down!

S

Bill virtual hug back! 

Hi.         Just been sent a link to this website by friend ....and REALLY interested to read of possible link between u.c/colectomy and depression   (  a  condition i would say that has affected me  to one  degree or another  for as long as i can remember)  ...especially as its over 30 years since i had surgery and never in all that time have i heard of probable link !!!  would be very grateful for any advice/info  re   diet/supplements/etc  that anyone who  had similar surgery/outcome  has experience of and found helped 

best wishes to all

Strange that no one has researched low levels of seratonin because a major producer of it has been removed. People keep talking about gut health helping their mood. If we have no gut, are we not eligible for this increase in mood?  I'm speaking about the science of it. But thanks to those who want to cheer us up with good words.

This is a good read.  Thanks for posting.

@skn69 posted:

Hi Chris,

I am one of the 'oldies' on here in both pouch history (k pouch 1979) and pouch longevity.

I had been battling my colon since birth with different variations of ostomies etc since age 2...total colectomy at 19.

Was it the origin of the depression? No. Did it contribute? Greatly.

As I told many a surgeon, shrink and GP...get rid of my disease and you can get rid of my depression.

I called it a situational or circumstantial depression. Change the situation or circumstances and you change my outlook on life.

Face it, our diseases are not sexy. They do not get the publicity of heart disease (the sexiest) or cancer (the #1 in emotional empathy) ...ours are the 'hide-it-under-the-table-and-do-not-mention-it-in-public kind of diseases.

We have a smelly-stinky-bathroom-emergency kind of disease that either makes people laugh or turn their heads away and go 'ouuuu...yucky'.

We bleed and suffer from a body part that is the butt of every bad joke on the planet.

So how could we possibly not be depressed? We can't talk about it, it is invisible to the outside world, most often they don't even believe that we are sick, we lock ourselves into bathrooms or poop ourselves when in bad flares, have bags pop and leak...we are the most 'unloved' disease out there next to maybe leprosy.

There are millions of us out there and it has been barely 10+ yrs (and thanks to internet and sites like this one) that we can finally reach others like us and talk about it.

This is a terribly depressing disease. But we do not need to be depressed.

Does the colon have a 'happy hormone' that equalizes us that we have now lost forever or do we just hide out and suffer in silence in a word that shuns us?

Either way, we are not a happy bunch when in an uncontrolled flare.

I think that we deserve every ounce of depression that we feel...We own it because we have suffered for it.

But, we can also fight biology with probiotics, relaxation techniques, meditation, yoga, great friends and a bottle of wine or a funny movie with a dog or a kid.

I used to fight with long walks, exercise and cooking...The only one left to me is cooking and my grandkids.

I do not give in because that would mean that I have been fighting this fight for nothing and I am not ready to give up.

So, even though I have no answers for you, I do have hope...And the belief that the sun does come up every morning, that there are always reasons to live and laugh if you just look for them and that if all else fails, there is prozac!

Cyber hugs from an old-timer

Sharon

Hi S—loved what you wrote and I have waited longer than I should have to reach out regarding link of depression and j-pouch  The main reason being is that I am so grateful for my “new” life that I won’t allow myself to think there could be a problem  Your words spoke to me and I would love to know more about probiotics and serotonin connections and what has worked for you  I too believe we create our own happiness but sometimes working so hard to make that happen doesn’t exactly produce results  Fatigue is often debilitating  Hope to hear from you and most certainly hope you are well during this crazy time of pandemic  

thanks in advance

Tobi

Chris  ..........think  Sharon s  (wonderful  )reply  says  it all  literally      ...even after  30  plus years  of living with the  'bag'   just   GREAT  to  read  words like that.....have had more than my share of grey  days ....have tried the  prescribed drugs ....briefly...(thankfully) as none seemed  worth price of not feeling connected....no matter how bad connected felt .....only thing i thinki have learnt is   the ability  to somehow and to somewhat degree   that  there are nearly always brighter days  ahead.......and when they  come    i try to  enjoy them as much as is possible ......  read one time that  in days long  long ago   'depression as we  know it was  thought of as a time for reflection/contemplation....possibly even  self isolation ........and considered  both  part of existence  and  positive ...

MINDYOURSELF

Hi Toby, Frankman,

I am a pom-pom girl for our diseases...I never had Crohn's or colon cancer but had a bouquet of birth defects including anal atresia, a healing disease called Ehler's Danlos and IBS...the bottom line was that after over 12 disastrous reconstructive surgeries including a 1yr stint with a colostomy at age 2, I was still 100% incontinent at 17 and had achy-quakey-bloody bowels. Being an adolescent was hell.

It builds character, to say the least. I cannot say that I was always sunny or happy or optimistic...I cannot say that I did not have very dark days (and darker nights)...but I can say that I had a DREAM.

I dreamt of moving to Paris, studying at the Sorbonne and becoming a teacher...my dreams were shot down time and again by parents, doctors, surgeons and friends. "You will Never be able to go to...be...become...work...study..." I also got the 'give up and give in' speeches...accept your destiny... settle for living as a shut-in...I got them all...also got the 'if only you would just eat a bran muffin a day...Take an enema daily...give up or start eating this or that then you will finally heal...(yes, I cursed them all and sometimes out loud...!)

Then one day I met my surgeon...I got a K pouch (the final straw for my family...how could I??? ) with a lot of painful surgical complications and redos...I got a life and a dream.

I also had to burn a lot of bridges to get to where I am, turn my back on the toxic people, the nay-sayers, the lead-boots, and the hateful people.

I fought hard, suffered harder...and probably unnecessarily too...but I had something to prove to my family...that I could do it...that I could survive on my own...that I could thrive without them...and I did.

It has been over 40 yrs now, I still live in Paris, married a wonderful man and became a step-grandmother...I have value, I have a career, I have 700+ students/year and I love them all...I travel (except during Covid) and lecture on happiness....what an incredible paradox...me speaking on happiness when life gave me nothing but lemons...

I only wish that all of the psychiatrists that told me that I was destined to be depressed and on meds, my whole life, could see me now (granted I was about 14 then)...

We don't get the easy path. We don't win our happiness for cheap. We don't get discounts on pain and tears...we pay full price for our little joys...but we darn well know how to appreciate them when they come around...

I have no advice to give...only do your best to live your dreams...and don't listen to the toxic people around you...

Sharon

Does anyone have any regimens they can share to boost serotonin and promote mental health? I have always believed high doses of prednisone have long term and possible irreversible effectS regarding mental stability and depression. I have been reading some great stuff from this group. I have been blessed with a new lease on life after jpouch surgery but it is time to acknowledge that I could be doing so much better. I believe we are responsible for our own happiness but we jpouchers are a special group and I am finally acknowledging that I possibly have depression that I am not responsible for. What has worked for you? What hasn’t? Thanks in advance.
tobi

Tobi, I have never found 'just one thing' that helped...for me it was always a combination of good nutrition with probiotics to help with my digestive process, Vit B's (liquid or chewable, the big horse-pills make me vomit and get stuck), a good choice of the rest of the alphabet vitamins...lots of sunlight in the winter (arms/face/neck for about 1/2hr every day), and lots of long walks or runs depending on the time of year and how much time I've got, weather and my body...I know that those things put all together help me tremendously...I need them all, not just one of them...I also need purpose...I need a reason to get up in the morning, responsibility...without which I feel lost...mine is my job, teaching, taking care of my students...cooking and baking are for the sense of personal accomplishment...feeding my family...but if I could knit it would be knitting or fixing a bike or a washing machine...I need that sense of purpose, accomplishment, giving and being useful...those are my 'real' drugs...

You may not need them all...but find the ones that work for you and are easily doable on a regular basis...do not set yourself up for failure...that makes things worse...so I do not undertake anything that is going to be too hard for me...a challenge is good, climbing mountains for me is impossible...So I climb little hills instead...

As for drugs, I really don't take any other than my absolute necessary meds...

Sharon

Sharon ........   So  So   glad....and  GREAT   to hear   how  you got there......and  honestly  so   delighted  to  know  you  got to  a  place in your life  of happiness and fulfillment ........hope those lucky enough to  hear your talks listen well and appreciate  what it has taken you to get to there .........wishing  you  continuing health and happiness .....

I got very depressed one week after my colectomy.  I am 50 and I have never been depressed before.  For me, it was horrible and acute.  I went to a psychiatrist and he prescribed Paxil - for me it worked in a month - initially I was very skeptical, but for me it was an incredible win.  My mental health is good now.

Frankman,

They have no idea of who I really am or of what I have gone through...only you guys do...but they do not need to know...they have their own problems in life and I am just there to try to help them get through the day...

Sometimes, I think that I have helped...that is good enough

Sharon

Doug, sometimes surgery and especially huge surgeries along with the general anesthetic can throw your system for a loop...Add to that the loss of your colon, new plumbing and meds...it would be an absolute miracle if you did not suffer from depression...it has absolutely nothing to do with being strong or weak...it is just your body's reaction to the trauma you have survived...PTSD or whatever you want to call it...you are a survivor and you have found a way to survive...that is all that matters.

I honor survivors

sharon

The colon regulates the serotonin levels in the brain .SSRI's are helpful .not large doses 10mg of lexapro is enough to make you feel content.

@winter wish posted:

They are treating depression with probiotics now, so this is really important BUT must be really complicated by the fact we have no large colon! I am finding the Quest chewable Kids Biotix really positive, and I have tried allot of the usual ones like VSL and align previously

Hello,

I’ve been thinking about taking a probiotic to see if it would help with everything I’m going through. I’m interested to know how this chewable kids probiotic is helping?

Thanks,

‘Yvonne

I've been talking "Mood Probiotic" by Innovix Labs, which was designed and tested specifically with stains meant to help mental health. It's been about a year and I'd say that I noticed some help, so I have continued to take it. I researched all about different strains that are supposedly helpful and found this to be credible. I had been on many different SSRIs over the years with some success, but I always got serious restless leg when I took them. Back when I did the docs Prescribed a hydrocodone at night to counteract it and it all worked out. Clearly, with the abuse  of the opiods in recent years, and the docs not able to prescribe that, so since 2013 I haven't been able to tolerate any SSRIs. Does anyone know of any natural ways to increase seratonin in the brain? Like I stated way back in this thread, where is the research for our special circumstances of not being able to have our bodies create what everyone else has? I am thinking that when your body creates it then it goes to the right place and won't cause side effects like restless leg and the other well known side effects. So yeah, give the Probiotic I mentioned a try, after reading the info and if it makes sense for you. It's something. But if someone out there knows someone or something, let's get the info on how we can increase seratonin creation in our bodies. I will even contact the people and pursue this if anyone has any ideas of who could help us. Thanks for listening.  Plus I'll look into those Quest ones, because any little bit would help. Thanks for the suggestion.

I know that this probably will not be helpful but physical activity increases serotonin output in the brain...that is why some athletes, after about 45 mins of exercise get the 'high' effect...you do not need to run or do extreme sports...I'm 'an old lady' by now and I can certify that my tiny little workouts can push me up to a happy place...I also found that jumping up and down (not sure if you are allowed or not) can push you up to a high very quickly (about 2-3 minutes)...I do a slow workout using arms, legs and very light weights and in between sets I jump up and down (I don't bother with the jump rope or I will trip on it) and get an incredibly high...it also works by bouncing on the big pilates ball...

Furthermore, the more that I walk or exercise the better I sleep.

It may not be an 'easy high' , you sort of have to work for it but after a while, it really does help...

I was on Prozac for about 2 months...I hated it in 1000 different ways and it did not like me much either...they put me on something else at another time and it was not any better...this is my only choice. Meds do not agree with me.

That said, I love the probiotic idea...I usually take them regularly but since Covid I have not been able to fly home and pick up my annual supply of supplements and meds...maybe this year. (where I come from they are so expensive that I can buy a 1yrs supply back home for the price of 1 month here)

Let me know if you try them and if you feel a positive effect.

Sharon

Thanks Sharon! I do exercise most days for about 40 minutes. And you are right, this is the only natural antidepressant I can not live without. I tried the jumping thing and nope. My knees said nope. But thanks for the suggestion.

I was searching for info online and I found this: "In the gut, a special epithelial cell, called enterochromaffin, produces nearly all of the serotonin in our body,” explains Arthur Beyder, M.D., Ph.D. He's from Mayo.  So I wrote him, asking about the small intestine and j-pouches. If he gets back to me, I'll update you all.

Sharon,  you are talking to me when you say exercise helps.  And  I'll reaffirm the necessity of getting exposed to some bright daylight.  The silver lining in the pandemic for me has been working from home.  I am now able to combine my workout with getting outside for some daylight at my lunch hour.  I do run (more slowly these days,  but steady) and I often run loops in the park next to my house, so I can get home in 5 or 10 minutes if I need to go.  My husband always laughs because I come in from a run all smiles, especially on sunny days.  The great feeling wears off, but my overall mental well being is much improved by my workouts.  I also lift weights (at home now)  and finally purchased a home stepclimber for days like tomorrow's blizzard here in the Northeast.  I've also gotten in a workout by just stepping up and down on a box and doing crunches and pushups.  When I was in the hospital for so many weeks before and during my surgeries I walked a lot of miles pushing an IV pole,  and even that helped.   Plus I think it got me out of the hospital faster.  Very grateful my body has continued to let me exercise!

Serotonin cannot cross the blood-brain barrier. Whatever functions the gut is using serotonin for don’t directly affect brain function.

Exercise gave me a high but it is short lived it's like chasing your tail.lexapro helped me feel content.I don't understand why but the difference is like night and day.during my second surgery they didn't give me my daily dose of lexapro and I became very depressed but on my 8 th day they reintroduced it and my sadness left.its said to take 7 days to wean off lexapro but it was one of my darkest times.ssri plus exercise is the best for me.

@skn69 posted:

I know that this probably will not be helpful but physical activity increases serotonin output in the brain...that is why some athletes, after about 45 mins of exercise get the 'high' effect...you do not need to run or do extreme sports...I'm 'an old lady' by now and I can certify that my tiny little workouts can push me up to a happy place...I also found that jumping up and down (not sure if you are allowed or not) can push you up to a high very quickly (about 2-3 minutes)...I do a slow workout using arms, legs and very light weights and in between sets I jump up and down (I don't bother with the jump rope or I will trip on it) and get an incredibly high...it also works by bouncing on the big pilates ball...

Furthermore, the more that I walk or exercise the better I sleep.

It may not be an 'easy high' , you sort of have to work for it but after a while, it really does help...

I was on Prozac for about 2 months...I hated it in 1000 different ways and it did not like me much either...they put me on something else at another time and it was not any better...this is my only choice. Meds do not agree with me.

That said, I love the probiotic idea...I usually take them regularly but since Covid I have not been able to fly home and pick up my annual supply of supplements and meds...maybe this year. (where I come from they are so expensive that I can buy a 1yrs supply back home for the price of 1 month here)

Let me know if you try them and if you feel a positive effect.

Sharon

S

Do you have a probiotic that has worked particularly well for you?
thanks

tobi

I took probiotics for the 1st time back in the early 90's...my GP who is also a naturopath had them custom made for me through a private lab...it was fantastic...I had to keep them in the fridge and they lasted only 1 month but the results were fantastic...

Since then I buy big-brand probiotics...whichever are on sale...often the chewable kind...I have not found a huge difference between those that cost 20$ and those that cost 50$...they both worked well for me.

What I did discover on my last trip home was that drinking Aloe Vera pure juice seemed to help a lot...I drank it on an empty stomach and discovered that my pouch loved it!

Pomegranate juice helps my pouch when I am dehydrated, it is very astringent and helps with 'liquidy pouch'...Persimmons and Dates are also great if your pouch is running too quickly.

The same with most vitamins...I take an assortment of B vitamins in liquid form, Calcium/D or Cal/mag/B6, multi-minerals when I can find them, magnesium for nerves & sleep cycle, and of course a multivitamin...When I can find chewables or gummies I prefer them...

Here where I live (in France) they have a lab that makes some very strange mixes...in liquid form or ampoules that were suggested by my doctor. Gold/Silver/Copper is used to help support the immune system. She would prescribe a 1 month run of it 2xs/yr...there were other mixes too that I occasionally take but I am very careful now...my liver is acting up and I no longer dare take anything without medical advice...

So, I will say, always ask your doctor before taking any meds...we are delicate and have to be careful what we put into our bodies.

Sharon

My surgery was 20 years ago. I just couldn't recover, and there was no reason for it. Finally my GI sent me to a psychiatrist (I was a little insulted, but I went) and he suggested I get on an anti-depressant. I was skeptical, but since taking the Lexapro, I've been feeling great. I never looked back.

PS...twice I thought I'd wean myself off of it, I'd probably be fine, but low and behold, that very sick feeling I experienced and couldn't get over after surgery returned. Go figure. I'm on Lexapro for life.

@Meatball posted:

My surgery was 20 years ago. I just couldn't recover, and there was no reason for it. Finally my GI sent me to a psychiatrist (I was a little insulted, but I went) and he suggested I get on an anti-depressant. I was skeptical, but since taking the Lexapro, I've been feeling great. I never looked back.

PS...twice I thought I'd wean myself off of it, I'd probably be fine, but low and behold, that very sick feeling I experienced and couldn't get over after surgery returned. Go figure. I'm on Lexapro for life.

Yeah me too Meatball they took me off lexapro for a week and I turned into a crying mess again .but as soon as I started again I became content.

I wish I could take them again. You all are reminding me of why I try them again every year. It’s about that time again. 😂 in the olden days, they did make a difference.  But each one pooped out after a while and I’d have to switch. That happens with some people.  

Since 2013 I haven’t been able to take them because of severe side effects. It’s been a much tougher life since then.