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Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for some advice. My story is UC diagnosis at age 11, J-Pouch surgery in one stage at age 17, a revision at age 33 because the j-pouch had grown a side chamber, and now at age 38, I'm being told that there is a stricture where the small bowel meets the j-pouch and that the pouch itself has somehow shrunken and can't hold anything, which explains why I'm having like 25-30 movements a day, everything I eat makes my gut upset and makes me go, and I'm lacking energy of course. I've also had chronic pouchitis forever. After being on antibiotics for like 19 years, they don't seem to do much anymore. My surgeon laid out the options. He said, I can do a revision, but since the pouch has already sort of shape-shifted twice, it'd likely do it again, that this current pouch is not likely to succeed. He said he could do a redo, but then I'd be dealing with less intestine, he might get in there and see it's a no-go with the way my blood vessels and nerves or something are and seems to be a lot of risks involved with taking out the old pouch and creating a new one from scratch, of which a greater chance of sexual dysfunction scares the heck out of me. Then, there is the k-pouch, the issues would mostly be the same as he thinks they'd be with revising/redoing a j-pouch and there maybe some additional ones too. And finally, the permanent ileostomy, he seemed to suggest, would have the least risk and greatest chance of success. I've been unwell for several years now and gradually getting worse. I've scheduled the surgery for right after Thanksgiving, but I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I've barely been able to do my job, have no social life anymore, hardly sleep and feel lousy most of the time. If this is the best option, which right now it's sounding like, I'll embrace it. I just want to know if people agree it is or if they have any advice?

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If you are indeed not a candidate for a Koch pouch - well, I guess the permanent ileostomy would offer you the best quality of life.

I would get a second opinion from someone who does K-pouches on a frequent basis. It couldn't hurt. There are surgeons in the NYC area who perform the K-pouch. Let me know if you need any names. Others on this site will offer good advice.
B
Hi Russell,
In a way, I can personally relate to your situation. I had a J pouch for 30 years and, except for the frequency problem that became worse over time, the pouch served me well. To make a long story short, my GI found dysplasia in the anal canal and recommended removal of the pouch and creation of an ostomy. I had a follow-up exam at Mayo that showed no cancer was present, but they only offered me “the bag”. I had a loop ileo as part of the J pouch procedure and could not wait to be rid of it. Even though improvements in appliances for permanent ileostomies have made this a good choice for many people, I did not feel that it was an appropriate choice for me. I had done research on continent ileostomies (K pouch and BCIR) and began my search for a surgeon who would do one of these for me, given my history of abdominal adhesions and the likelihood that it would be a difficult operation.

No matter what surgical choice you make, removal of your present pouch is probably the most complex part of your surgery. You will want to find the best surgeon for this; one who has done many of these procedures and would feel comfortable dealing with the complications that appear present in your case. Perhaps you will want to delay your upcoming surgery to allow time for your research, given the impact it will have on your life. There are a limited number of surgeons who do K pouches and only 2 in the US who do the BCIR. I elected to have the BCIR by Dr. Ernest Rehnke in Florida and am very pleased with the results and my improved quality of life. It is my understanding that Cleveland Clinic is one of the best places for K pouches. Please feel free to PM me, and best of luck with whatever option you select.

Bill
BillV
Hi,

JillM, did you have the 'barbie' butt done?

Jeffrey, I am also having to make this decision. My pouch surgery was a failure from the beginning, found out that a class of students was brought in to try out their skill and they removed my rectal stump right at the top of the rectal muscle, so the surgeon stapled the pouch directly into the rectal muscle. I have been in severe pain for years, it has been impossible to get an appt with any surgeon afterwards. Finally, after another surgeon in another province failed to do the surgery (instead I woke up with a temp ileo, after preparing for the surgery for a year with him!! - no explanation afterwards, he wouldn't see me or return calls since the surgery almost 2 years ago!) I now have found a surgeon to do it here, and he is going to remove the rectum. Is this what you will get done as well?

I was told about a lot of possible complications, as the pouch is sort of 'anchored' in there now and difficult to remove. My bladder he says will probably fall back and lean against my spine. I am hoping for the best, but if it works, I have read quite a bit about people saying its the best decision they ever made. The bag…..I love it.
Especially camping Smiler It's so easy to empty, no worries. No worries about any problems with having a pouch.

I really wanted to know if Jill and you were having your rectum fully removed…..Any complications after the surgery down there Jill?
Jay-P
Hi All,

My wife is in a similar situation. Her original surgeon left behind 6cm of inflammed rectum that is causing a miserable quality of life.

We are considering pouch redo. From what I understand, the pouch ends up adhering/attaching itself to all surrounding organs and structures including sacrum, bladder, uterus etc. The exision is definitely something that needs to be done by someone skilled and experienced.

It is correct that for a redo you end up losing about 1 foot of small intestine. We are being told that there is no concern for short bowel disorder with only a foot missing.

My wife potential treatment will first be a temp-illeo. This will be done to make sure that the bad pouch is causing all of her symptoms. Next they will exise old pouch, make new pouch, then 3rd will be a takedown of illeo.

Interestingly, the first temp-illeo that she will have will be relatively low down. Stool should be relatively soft-formed. After the new pouch is created they will create a new ileostomy that is higher up further from the pouch. Output should be higher than the first.

DP
P
Do all of our j-pouches adhere or attach themselves to the body parts/organs next to it? Not what I imagined at all. I've had explained and unexplained pain since my surgeries and still take daily pain medication. Instead of blaming the pain all on adhesions and IPS (cuffitis when I have it too), I wonder if my j-pouch has adhered to it's next door neighbors and that is causing pain? Can they see this in an MRI and/or CT Scan?

I would get a second opinion and maybe a third before having surgery again, especially for the removal of my pouch. For second opinions on corrections I'd suggest going to the Mayo Clinic or Cleveland Clinic.
TE Marie
Scar tissue and other stuff makes pouches attach to other organs and can't be detected on a scan. My friend just had her BCIR removed. She had one adhesion wrap around the middle and form 2 pouches basically. Her uterus, pouch and bladder was all fused together and caused her great pain. She opted for an ileostomy but is still having pain in general. They only saw her adhesion that was wrapped around the middle on a scope. The rest wasn't seen until they opened her up.
vanessavy
TE, adhesions are what attach the pouch to surrounding structures, and that is a fairly typical result. You just have more adhesions if there is infection (such as from any leakage). Plus, the amount of adhesions simply varies from person to person. The problems occur when the adhesions form in places that restrict the normal movement of the intestines/pouch. Also, if you have chronic inflammation, such as pouchitis, that thickens the bowel wall, making it "stiffer" and less compliant. That can reduce the capacity of the pouch and add to the frequency.

So, when you say you atribute some of your pain to adhesions, that would also include adhesions to surrounding structures.

Jan Smiler
Jan Dollar
Thanks vanssavy and Jan, great explanations Smiler

I really feel for everyone that is faced with having their j-pouches removed, especially if they've become involved with neighboring organs. Everyone considering these surgeries please get the most experienced surgeons in this area you can. This sounds so much more serious than our initials surgeries with probable or possible multiple organ involvement Frowner
TE Marie
Sorry I didn't see this earlier - yes, I have a Barbie butt. No issues at all. Healed well and issues since.

Really, I have NO GI issues - see my dr once a year just to check in but haven't seen my stoma nurse in three years cause I got busy.

I'm now working part time, head of my kids school parent group, serving as taxi for two active kids ages 7 and 5, I live a very ordinary life. Ostomy is just routine for me now. Never think of it as anything different now. PM me if you want to - I see those quicker!
J
It's been two years since my jpouch surgery. There was a sinus leak and I've been unable to have the take down. Saw a specialist that said he could do a surgery that should allow for takedown. But there are risks, etc.
So I have not done that and may not. My life has been so much better in the last two years. The ileostomy is a hassle sometimes, but nothing like what life was like before. All the docs say that I can live with the ileostomy as is and no other surgeries are required.
It's about quality of life.
Best of luck to you and I hope you feel better soon!
B

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