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Hi all,

I'm coming to the realization that my j-pouch is a big fat failure. Between the constant pouchitis, scar pain, blockages, too much poop and no sleep, butt burn, constant leakage - stick a fork in me cuz I'm done.

But...silly jilly thought the options were j-pouch or ostomy plastic bag on my belly. Yet you guys talk about all kinds of other non-j-pouch solutions. Can one of you (maybe our beloved Jan?) give me a list of all the non-j-pouch options? I'll do the research; however feel free to give your opinions on all of them.

Thank you. Life sucks. It's got to get better. It just has to.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

quote:
I understand that there are different types of perm ostomies, like end and loop. Don't even know what I don't know!!
Help...


Yes, there is the end ileo, which is actually considered more of a permanent ileo, and the loop, which is diverting and more often than not temporary, though you can go on with one indefinitely; that is, if you can tolerate it! If you are going for a permanent ostomy, the end ostomy is 100 times better. I've had both and much preferred my end ileo. I hated the loop. That thing ran like a faucet day and night. It leaked, and I also had trouble getting my wafer to stay on for more than a couple of days. The end ileo had much more formed stools, a smaller stoma, the ostomy system stayed in place (I frequently could wear it 5 or 6 days with no problems) and in general it was just so much much easier to take care of.
Spooky
Jilly,
The kpouch or BCIR are both continent ileostomies with an extrenal stoma that is usually situated on the lower right side of the abdomen (around where your appendix would be). The stoma is tiny, around the size of a small bellybutton and slightly pinkish...it sits flush with the skin and is used as a passage into which you put a catheter (French 30 or 32 or Medena mostly but some used smaller or larger ones). My kit consists of a make-up bag or pencil case. In it I have 1 or 2 tubes (1 strait and 1 curved depending on how my pouch is situated or behaving), a 60cc syringe that I used to irrigate my pouch with when the contents are too thick (I have used tap water since the begining). I only irrigate when needed, if the contents are liquidy (expecially if I eat a lot of protiens and/or drink grape of prune juice)I just lube up the tube a bit, stick it in and the contents pour out in under a minute. I then rince the tube, wipe off the surface of the stoma and put a folded up kleenex over it to keep it safe and dry. (I also use a 1/2 minipad stuck to the inside of my undddies for extra safty agains mucous leakage.
Under the best conditions I intubate 4-8xs a day (before and/or after meals, when I wake up and before bed)...
When I am dressed you would have no idea that I had a stoma, when I am undressed I can hide it behind an oversized bandaid...I could tecnically where a bikini with no problem.
You need an experienced surgeon who really knows k pouch or BCIRs to have it done...often they can save the j pouch and just build the valve out of 40cms of small bowel...for some reason we have much less incidence of pouchitis with k pouches than people with j pouches have...the bonus is that there is really almost no Buttburn other than in the very begining (stoma irritation).
Post on the k pouch forum here and ask them all to give you some input...there is also a master list of surgeon on there to help you find someone competent for a consult.
Hope that this helps.
Sharon
skn69
Options for a failed j-pouch:

1. If you really want to avoid any sort of ostomy, then there is always the option of pouch reconstruction, pouch advancement, etc. This is where they either remove or repair what is structurally wrong, or take out the existing pouch and build a new one from scratch. Only a surgeon that is experienced in pouch salvage or reconstruction could tell you if you are a good candidate.

If ileoanal pouch salvage or redo is off the list, here are the other options:

2. Diverting loop ileostomy, keeping the pouch intact. This is often suggested as an option for pouch rest, "so it can heal." Then at a future time, you reconnect. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. If it doesn't, it just seems like wasted time and effort.

3. End ileostomy, while keeping the j-pouch intact. This can be a permanent solution in some situations, if the pouchitis goes into remission and having to empty the pouch of mucous periodically does not bother you. It gives the benefit of an easier to manage stoma, without the huge surgery of pouch removal. It can even be done with Crohn's.

4. If you really are opposed to an external appliance, then there is the continent ileostomy. No bags to wear, but you drain the reservoir with a catheter periodically. So, there is equipment you need to carry with you. If your current pouch is in decent shape, it could even be used to create the continent ileostomy reservoir. Removed or reused, the rectum is closed. It could be in the form of a "Barbie Butt," where the sphincters are removed, along with the anal canal, or the sphincters may be spared and the anus is left intact, with a short "blind" end. Continent ileostomies are not perfect, and have a fairly high reoperation rate, but can be a good choice for those who are motivated. The biggest issue I see is that it is a highly specialized surgery, so you may have to travel distances for aftercare and/or maintenance. If you go to the k-pouch forum, there is a master list of surgeons who performs these.

There are a few different types of continent ileostomies, each with pros and cons:

A. Kock pouch- oldest style with what is called a nipple valve. There have been improvements over the decades. This is what they do at Cleveland Clinic.

B. BCIR (Barnett Continent Ileostomy Reservoir)- this type uses part of the intestine as a collar around the exit to provide continence. There are select surgeons who prefer this method, and a few centers that specialize in them.

C. T-pouch- I don't see much on this one anymore. It was sort of an experimental design that I used to hear of about 10 years ago. I think a high complication rate caused it to fall out of favor, or it really was not an improvement in design. I am not sure anyone does them anymore.

Good luck Jilly! There are a lot of folks here who had thier pouches removed or defunctioned, so you are in excellent company.

Jan Smiler
Jan Dollar
Jilly if you PM with me I can share with you what options were given to me when my CC docs determined my jpouch was a complete and utter failure as it had been built wrong. disconnect, redo, rebuild, ripout.. all have pros/cons. I can share with you my path and why I chose what I did.

Kudos to you for taking the first step in trying to think through getting your life back. pat yourself on the back. you have called "enough enough" so good for you.
L
Thank you all so very VERY much! This site, and all of you on it, are truly, seriously, genuinely life-savers.

As a little post script, another one of us, who shall remain nameless for the moment, is dealing with the exact same decisions as I am. I will be sharing all of this info with this wonderful one, so everybody's getting a two-fer! Thanks for that, too...
Jilly
Aww Jilly, so sorry. You seemed to be doing okay last time I was here. Don't want you to repeat yourself but how far down the Immuno-biologic road have you gone?

I think I would opt for one of the reconstruction options, ya know, give the pouch thing one more try since it's nice to sorta function sorta normal, when it sorta works of course....

All the best

MK-
Mental Kase
I haven't tried biological with the pouch. The last straw with my colon was 6MP, which made me ridiculously sick. I haven't tried the humira or anything like that for pouchitis tho.

I meet with her royal majesty, Dr. Uma Mehadevan of UCSF on October 7, which is two weeks from tomorrow. I'm dying here. I woke up yesterday during the night, lying on a mountain of cold diarrhea poop in my bed. I guess I'd pooped and just kept sleeping. Cleaning that up was humiliating and nauseating and disgusting. Used to be that it didn't bother me...ya know, it's only poo!! But it's been 12 years and now I just feel done.

Anyway, if the wonderful Dr. Uma has some good answers, things will get better, right? It just has to cuz this life is not working.
Jilly
Jilly,

Never Humira or Imuran. Have you been on Prednisone? I hear you. In another I post I wished a respite for you, a break from the late night laundry and washcloths.

I sincerely hope your Doctor brings forth a few big guns to shut this nonsense down for a bit. Let us know the plan as it evolves. Demand relief, get relief!

If the incontinence is also accompanied by run away inflammation, pouchitis, local inflammation etc... -could she call in a script and get you started on a Prednisone run, then evaluate you proper at your appt. Just winging it here.

Best,

MK
Mental Kase
Jilly, I am so sorry to hear about that you are going through. What a nightmare. You will be in extraordinary hands when you go to UCSF and I hope you leave there with a clearer idea of what your next steps will be. While there is no perfect scenario, your quality of life can and will improve.

Please keep us updated on your progress. We are rooting for you!
Lynne2
Jan Dollar posted:
Options for a failed j-pouch:

1. If you really want to avoid any sort of ostomy, then there is always the option of pouch reconstruction, pouch advancement, etc. This is where they either remove or repair what is structurally wrong, or take out the existing pouch and build a new one from scratch. Only a surgeon that is experienced in pouch salvage or reconstruction could tell you if you are a good candidate.

If ileoanal pouch salvage or redo is off the list, here are the other options:

2. Diverting loop ileostomy, keeping the pouch intact. This is often suggested as an option for pouch rest, "so it can heal." Then at a future time, you reconnect. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. If it doesn't, it just seems like wasted time and effort.

3. End ileostomy, while keeping the j-pouch intact. This can be a permanent solution in some situations, if the pouchitis goes into remission and having to empty the pouch of mucous periodically does not bother you. It gives the benefit of an easier to manage stoma, without the huge surgery of pouch removal. It can even be done with Crohn's.

4. If you really are opposed to an external appliance, then there is the continent ileostomy. No bags to wear, but you drain the reservoir with a catheter periodically. So, there is equipment you need to carry with you. If your current pouch is in decent shape, it could even be used to create the continent ileostomy reservoir. Removed or reused, the rectum is closed. It could be in the form of a "Barbie Butt," where the sphincters are removed, along with the anal canal, or the sphincters may be spared and the anus is left intact, with a short "blind" end. Continent ileostomies are not perfect, and have a fairly high reoperation rate, but can be a good choice for those who are motivated. The biggest issue I see is that it is a highly specialized surgery, so you may have to travel distances for aftercare and/or maintenance. If you go to the k-pouch forum, there is a master list of surgeons who performs these.

There are a few different types of continent ileostomies, each with pros and cons:

A. Kock pouch- oldest style with what is called a nipple valve. There have been improvements over the decades. This is what they do at Cleveland Clinic.

B. BCIR (Barnett Continent Ileostomy Reservoir)- this type uses part of the intestine as a collar around the exit to provide continence. There are select surgeons who prefer this method, and a few centers that specialize in them.

C. T-pouch- I don't see much on this one anymore. It was sort of an experimental design that I used to hear of about 10 years ago. I think a high complication rate caused it to fall out of favor, or it really was not an improvement in design. I am not sure anyone does them anymore.

Good luck Jilly! There are a lot of folks here who had thier pouches removed or defunctioned, so you are in excellent company.

Jan Smiler

Hi Jan, I wish I would have searched this before, because I've recently had loop Ileostomy surgery (Sep 2016) to allow the pouch to heal, after chronic pouchitis for 3 years and it's been 8 months now and it hasn't really been healing as much as expected.  My doctor hasn't prescribed any medications, except an enema that he's working on, but I'm wondering if I tried taking cipro which was my go to in the past, that would help heal things?  Would you know of any other options to help heal the pouch, like enemas, etc...?  My doctors really think I should keep the bag, but I don't want to give up on the pouch just yet and I'm glad that reconstruction is an option, I just have to find a surgeon who can do it and would do it, if it came to that.

Tinat

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