I can't help you with this one since I just finished step 1 (takedown scheduled for Jan), but I am very interested in the answer since I plan on training for a half-marathon as soon as I'm doc-approved for exercise. I'll definitely subscribe to this post so I can hear what others have to say, but it would also be nice to have someone to discuss the ins and outs of this with and share advice and experiences. Please keep in touch with me on this, and feel free to email me any time. :-)

Subzeromambo, keep at your training and keep experimenting. :-) I've run several halfs and found that just like like with a jpouch, it takes a certain amount of experimentation to find what works for you. Do you hydrate as you run? I carry my own water (especially in races). Though I haven't tried it personally, I've often heard the Chocolate Milk is a great post-run snack; correct balance of protien & carbs and helps hydration. How much fruit do you eat? I have a banana before long runs and eat several pieces of fruit each day. Prayers & Best Wishes, Steve

I do lot of running and have come down with dehydration 3 times with my pouch. The weather was on the warmer side though, that's why I think December shouldn't be much of a problem, especially if you hydrate correctly and keep away from caffeine.

I suspect that what I need and can eat and drink will change over time but after a lot of experimenting with other j-pouchers' suggestions from another forum here is what works right now:

An hour or more before I start I have a piece of bread with 1 tablespoon peanut butter and half a banana plus 16 oz of water. I carry two 8 oz bottles of Heed Perpetuem and 8 oz of water on a waist belt. I found a belt that has the bottles sitting right in the crook of my back. I do not feel or notice them. There is also a pocket for gels and cubes.

I drink a bottle of Perpeteum each of the first two hours and finish up with the water during the third hour. Stinger gummis have worked very well during the second and third hour to keep up my energy without the sugar let down I experienced from Cliff shots or Gatorade. Stingers use a little honey instead of a lot of sugar.

Anytime I do more than two and a half hours, I follow up with Heed Recoverite. It stops me from eating everything in sight when I get home. I also do not seem to hurt as much afterwards.

I have not tried any of the gels or sports beans yet. Things that did not work: Lara mini-bars, Kind bars and Powerade. I tried the Lara bars twice and ended up with horrible stomach cramps. Kind bars were also very unkind to my digestive system. I ended up with very painful butt burn. I think energy bars decreased my endurance too. Perhaps energy is diverted to digest the fibrous bars?

The Powerade did not have any effect at all. It did not help my endurance and I had a lot of muscle cramps later in the day. I stretch a lot so having cramps only happened on the times I tried Powerade. I tried watered down Gatorade with an added teaspoon of salt per another runners advice. It actually worked pretty well but I prefer a drink without all the artificial colors and flavors.

Each of our bodies will have very different needs as to hydration, nutrition and minerals. I used a food journal to keep track of what worked and didn't work. I kept track of endurance, digestive comfort, thirst and cramping. I hydrate a lot more than my team mates but I seem to need it more.

Right now I am race walking in the rain which means I sweat a lot under the rain gear. I wear as little as possible underneath. If I do not wear rain gear, my core temperature drops too quickly to be safe. I listen to my body and try to respond to needs as soon as possible. I am hoping that I won't have to be so fussy once my body is in better shape.

Yesterday, I did five miles of steep hill work at a race pace. It only took 75 minutes but I can hardly move today. I am not sure why my coach thinks this is good for me. I keep reminding myself that I was on a walker in March and still needing a cane to get to the bathroom in August. I may not be fast but at least I am doing it! The pain is a bit discouraging.

My coach suggested that my hydration and nutrition needs are higher than my teammates because my body is still not in great shape. Our assistant coach has a j-pouch and walks as fast as most runners race. Her take down was in July and she did a marathon on Oct. 2! She is my hero. Her nutrition needs are the same as non-j-pouchers but she does carry an extra water bottle.

I appreciate everyone's posts and supportive comments. The other racers I heard from live on four different continents. It was fascinating to learn the differences of j-pouchers' needs in different climates and elevations.

sounds like your not sure this is good for you so why are you doing it? it doesnt seem ideal for healing and minimizing inflammation etc. if im wrong i apologize but please be careful fellow poucher

My advice is to be very careful. I made it 21 miles through a Marathon training, 3 years after the j-pouch and ended up in the hospital for not being hydrated enough and with my first blockage. heavy exercise for people like us means you need to hydrate more than any of the other people training. definitely have water/sports drink on you and make sure you have extra water during the day. I actually gained weight during the training because my body craved more energy and more food and carbs. More recently I have been eating on the paleo diet, which they say is incredibly good for athletes, they even have articles and books specific for athletes trying to eat paleo, please reach out if you have any questions.

Tom,
I apologize if I made it sound like I was unhappy with the whole training regimen. I meant just that the intense hill training was more than I felt I was able to do. I hired a good coach because I do not feel confident in my judgement of when to push and when to stop. She was right and my muscles do feel a lot stronger today.

After my take down, my surgeon sent me to a physical therapist who developed a plan that would have me back to my old physical condition in two years. I found that incredibly frustrating so I tried a second physical therapist who told me the same thing. The combination of being in a coma, years in bed, having seven organs removed and three open abdominal surgeries in one year was too much for my body to bounce back from in a short time frame.

I did a lot of research and found that the training for race walking was probably going to cut that time in half. I started interviewing coaches. The one I chose was the fourth I interviewed. She is a licensed physical therapist as well as the 2011 International Masters Race Walking Champion.

After three months of physical therapy, I joined a group training plan. The cost is $85 for three months. Much cheaper than physical therapy!

So back to your original question. Why am I doing it? Easy answer: I want my body back as fast as possible.

The j-pouch is already healed so the training does not effect it. The experiments with nutrition does put me at risk of some inflammation but that would happen even if I wasn't experimenting.

I could do this much more slowly resulting in no pain but I am too impatient. I also love competitive sports.

My long term goal is to be of sound mind and body in my 90s. Many of my relatives live to be more than 100 years old. My favorite great-aunt died at 104. She walked five to ten miles every day.

Every interesting person I know who is in their 90s is physically active. The men who still have wit and intellect were all involved in competitive sports until their 70s. It is very lonely for them because most of their friends have degenerative physical and mental illnesses. I volunteer as a biographer at a nursing home.

It is time for me to go out and do another five miles. I hope you have a great day and slept well throughout the night.

Cher,
Thank you for the reminder. I am very sorry you had to go through that. I have been feeling like maybe I was overdoing it on the hydration but after reading your post I feel reassured that it is the right thing to do.
I tried the Paleo diet before all of this happened. I had to stop because I was unable to eat for a long time. I had parenteral (sp?) nutrition. I may go back to it but not for a while.
Cynthia

Hydrate the most you can the day before, that is where it really counts. I think a lot of people think hydration is just the day of, the day before is key. When I know I am going to do a tough crossfit wod I always water up the day before and drink broth and other natural hydration drinks. There are a lot of recipes out there for natural ways to hydrate. Gatorade and all that other stuff is filled with sugar. I used to work for Advocare and I tried their rehydrate and it helped a lot. I cut out sugar period so I avoid all that stuff these days.

Vanassavy,
That is good advice. People also keep telling me to "carb up" the day before. The idea of filling myself with pasta the day before sounds terrible. What do you do?

I take a lot of mason jars and fill them with h2o and different fruits and herbs. Like pineapple and mint, or strawberry and basil, various citrus, etc. After 24 hours the water has natural vitamins in it. Also easier to drink sometimes then straight water. I also drink a lot of coconut water since it is the best for hydration and all natural. I space out plain water since plain water can flush out electrolytes, especially when you lose a colon.


I did a blog post about this awhile back here is a link to what I had wrote about that might benefit you http://www.fitday.com/fitness-...ectrolyte-drink.html

I also eat more trace minerals.

I always hear carb up. I then chime in I eat a Paleo diet! lol

I drink Ceralyte (plain) when I get dehydrated. It is a WHO level oral rehydrating solution. Maybe it might help.

two quick suggestions....

Avoid bars- use GU or Clif Gels. Or really, any type of gel. There are even homemade options if you look online that can be cheaper and natural.

Also, I know this sounds weird, but I also alternate between a gel, and a packet of mustard. The mustard may not be the most appealing during a run, but it has really helped.

I'm doing 3-5 hour runs here in Dallas and cramping and dehydration can really be an issue.
I'm also a big fan of compression sleeves for your calves. I wear them during my runs and keep them on for 2-4 hours afterwards.
(note- I don't recommend compression socks that are calf length. Best to use your favorite and most comfortable socks- and add the calf sleeve)

Gels and Mustard Packets. And of course, liquid stuff too!

Since takedown 2.5 years ago: 10 triathlons (2 Olympic Distance), a half marathon, and the Dallas Marathon coming in December.

quote:

I'm also a big fan of compression sleeves for your calves. I wear them during my runs and keep them on for 2-4 hours afterwards.
(note- I don't recommend compression socks that are calf length. Best to use your favorite and most comfortable socks- and add the calf sleeve)

I know people who work for CEP and UA and they will say the total opposite. You can develop blood clots with just the sleeves, especially if worn for more than a couple hours, the full sock to the knee are the best, gives ideal blood flow preventing clots to form.

At my CCFA support group what is being constantly talked about is Nuun, here is the website for this product:

http://www.nuun.com/

Oddly at the last meeting someone complained they were feeling dehydrated, someone got a bottle of water, a Nuun tablet was dissolved into it, and problem solved. I think they are designed for 16 ounce or 20 ounce water bottles. There are several members of my support group who swear by it like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Personally I have never tried the product.

I would caution anyone about drinking NUUN. It has fake sugar in it. Know your ingredients! And if you live in CALIF, vote YES on Prop 37.

Sue

All of that powder junk is bad for you.

I heartily disagree about 'all' powdered drinks. I have been using Vitalyte since the early 80's and it's the best product I have found. It has very little sugar (some sugar is needed), very little flavor (not like those overpowering products), and very little color. The one I use is absolutely colorless. My 90-year old mother also drinks it for leg cramps at night.

Not all products are made the same.

kathy

Vanessa,

Please cite documentation that supports your claims. I've never heard that all powders are junk and I have been in the food industry for years.

Sue

I bought some Nuun and Vitalyte. I try new things one at a time and then repeat to see if I have the same reaction. Nuun products contain stevia which makes me nervous but I will try it.

The Hammer Heed Perpetuem is still the best so far. No artificial flavors, colors or sweeteners. It uses maltodesxtrin instead of sugar. It is also Kosher. Most importantly, I feel the best when I use it vs the others I have tried so far.

We each have different metabolisms, taste preferences, energy and recovery needs.
Please accept and respect each other's differences of opinions. There is not one answer for this. Each of us will find different solutions that work. The important thing is to share what works best for you so that we can all try it and see if it works for us too.

I have not heard much about nutrition and training. What and when do you eat before a two or three hour training or event?

quote:

Nuun products contain stevia which makes me nervous but I will try it.

A couple of recent studies suggesting that you have nothing to worry about:

http://informahealthcare.com/d...09/09637480903193049

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20370653

Apparently there is a history of politically motivated complaint to the FDA by anonymous cowards within the industry acting pursuant to their own self serving agendas and not for the public good. This should not come as much of a surprise. When you can be sued for libel and/or tortious interference with contractual or business expectancies and/or violations of state unfair trade practice laws, brought into court, and served with subpoenas to produce evidence, you would be surprised at what you can expose.

An insurance company which shall remain nameless once denied my client's auto theft loss claim based on an alleged expert witness who gave them an alleged expert opinion that he examined the steering column and mechanism and it was not compromised, and ignition took placed via keyed entry. Prior to coming to me, my client had given the insurance company an affidavit stating that there was only one key and she possessed it, and they denied her claim on the basis of that affidavit and the purported expert opinion.

I brought a bad faith lawsuit against the insurance company and came to find out that there was no expert and no expert opinion. They ended up paying my client for the full blue book value of the car plus they paid off the balance of the note AND paid me $15,000 in attorney's fees.

If an insurance company is capable of concocting evidence, you better believe that someone in that industry is capable of concocting a nonsense ANONYMOUS complaint, never tested in Court, to stall approval of and/or ban the food additive of a competitor.

Please read between the lines and do not listen to those who may have agendas. Draw your own conclusions based on what you read and do not let anyone here guide you in one way or another.

It's not the Stevia that's the problem for some pouchers, it's the sorbitol. Nuun contains sorbitol and for some of us that's a diarrhea producing product. A severe diarrhea producing product. It's often an ingredient in diabetic candy. Wowzer! Who would have known that candy could = firehose diarrhea.

I've tried Stevia and it works fine. But I grew my own so it didn't have any other additives in it.

I don't think anyone here has an agenda. It seems that people are giving their opinions and I'd suspect that anyone reading these posts are brilliant enough to winnow out the relevant from the irrelevant for themselves.

kathy

Usually I react strongly to sorbitol but I did not have any negative reaction to the Nuun. It has a very small amount of sorbitol. Apparently I do fine with Stevia too. It tasted good but I still didn't have the same endurance I experience with Perpetuem. I also have one heck of bad headache but that could just be a coincidence. I'll try it again to double check.

quote:

vanessavy

I make no claim as to clots; the topic is hydration, endurance and recovery.
I'm just saying what I do. Your friends at CEP and UA may be geniuses. But they may also have a colon.
Additionally, I wear compression sleeves more for 'during activity' than recovery. I just tend to wear mine afterwards because I don't stop moving after my runs. (and maybe I think it looks cool, too)
Runners need comfortable socks; and a good sock is too important when you crush 15+ miles of pavement behind you.

Remember: All our bodies react differently.

Here are some links for different thoughts on the subject.

http://running.competitor.com/...cks-vs-sleeves_46855

http://www.beginnertriathlete....?tid=431366&posts=12

http://www.runningtimes.com/Pr...aspx?articleID=21359

I am training for my third marathon of the year, Richmond VA. I survived Boston Marathon, Great Wall of China so far this year.

1. You need to do your training for months in advance. That is when you figure out your hydration and fueling schemes

2. Hydrate and salt load for several days prior to the race

3. you need to hydrate during the race, but don't forget salt.

4. Gels work great. Heed makes some good ones. (Avoid watermelon flavor, yukky!)

Good luck to all who are running this fall.

I did not know they ran a marathon on top of the Great Wall until you mentioned it. It looks pretty cool, from what I can see on the website. But that looks like some seriously uneven terrain you are running over via the top of the wall.

I must be missing something about the gels. Do you eat them straight or mix them with water? I tried one today and it was awful. It was a Gu.
How do you ingest salt during the race?

quote:

Please cite documentation that supports your claims. I've never heard that all powders are junk and I have been in the food industry for years.

Get off your high horse, lady. It is common sense if you read ingredients and then make your own natural organic supplements.

quote:

I make no claim as to clots; the topic is hydration, endurance and recovery.

I know you sent me a PM since you thought you came off of an ass. I am going to respond publicly since I am that kind of person. The sleeves can cause blood to pool at the ankles, causing clots. I am a heavy power lifter and crossfitter, I understand how CEP and other brands work for recovery. I own a lot of top dollar compression items and am a firm believer in them. The blood to flow correctly shouldn't be cut off at the ankle. That is all.

Great Wall of China included 2 6 mile loops up on the wall (and getting to it), the rest was in the countryside. Quite spectacular. The air pollution in Beijing was something, though.

I do a gel every5 miles or so. I have a belt that I can arrange 6 gel packs in the belt. I just pull one off, tear off the top and squeeze it down, followed by some water.

On the run, you may want to investigate some of the salt repletion stuff HEED has. You may want to carry a water bottle with you with some mineral repletion fluid (16 oz water with 2 effervescent salt tablets perhaps). Take a couple of swigs of this at each water station then drink the offered water. You could also take the offered gatarade or what ever sports drink they are offering on the course.

I tried to drink 3 or 4 16 oz bottles of water (each with an effervescent salt tablet, found at any running or biking store) a day for the two days prior to the race, then another bottle several hours prior to the race. I usually just take the gaterade on the course, alternate gaterade with water.

I used to put one of the powdered drinks (endurox) in a backpak hydration system, but I found that the protein just foamed up in my pouch and made me feel terrible.

Read up on hydration during endurance racing of any kind. You can over do the water and get hyponatremic which can be a medical emergency. You have to balance water and salt. There are some good resources on the internet.

Good luck

quote:

Get off your high horse, lady. It is common sense if you read ingredients and then make your own natural organic supplements.

quote:

I know you sent me a PM since you thought you came off of an ass.

As you know, sometimes when one reads something it can have a completely different connotation to you than what the OP meant. In this thread and in other threads, you often make definitive statements in which you appear to have information that sometimes needs backup information. Is there anything wrong with providing that? The question was asked very politely and included the word 'please.' Your response was inappropriate. If you don't have information to back up your statements then please say so. And please state that it's your opinion only.

This goes for all sorts of things that work for you. All that powder junk is not bad for people. If it was, it wouldn't be on the market. If you choose to make your your own rehydration products that's absolutely wonderful. Not everyone can do that nor does it work on long backpacking trips. It seems that you just want to stir the pot since you mentioned in a previous post on this same thread that you used to use Rehydrate from AdvoCare which is a powdered product. It also seems that you're carrying a chip on your shoulder and that you always have to be right.

Your post regarding marcustaylor also contained inappropriate name-calling. You state the 'sleeves can cause blood to pool at the ankles.' 'Can' - not 'will.' I thought Marcus was trying to provide a different point of view. I read his links and they made sense. All of this back-and-forth can be alleviated if you could just state that 'in your opinion' or 'you've found that for you, this works.' Thank you.

kathy

Hfc, We were on the Great Wall Sept. 11th when the news reached us of the catastrophe. It was surreal to be surrounded by such beauty while listening to the horrific broadcasts.
I picked up the salt tabs today. Thank you for the information. I have seen a lot of contradictory information on the web about how much sodium is healthy. What site did you like the most?

Two fairly good reviews on hyponatremia and marathons.

At this years Boston Marathon, I went to a day long sports medicine seminar the day before the race. Part of it was on hyponatremia. I ran fairly well on what was I believe the second or third hottest Boston marathon ever (course was mid 90s). I made sure I drank at least one 6 oz cup of sports drink at each stop.

http://www.runnersworld.com/ar...-302--8785-0,00.html

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-e...nners-drink-too-much

Good luck.

Good articles! Thank you.