I'd do the same as you are contemplating. The guy was obviously ignorant but sounds like a jerk on top of that.

I would find a lawyer in the area that deals with situations like these and ask them.

one of the girls on this site made this card up. I thought it was pretty interesting and could def . be useful for us. That gas station owner needs to be sited for sure. How rude!!

You could contact legal aid if money is a problem. But at the very, very least someone needs to reprimand that thoughtless bozo for his actions. Especially after you informed him that it was the law.

Also, contact the CCFA about the the Restroom Access Act - they may be able to tell you how to proceed.

kathy

I am sorry to hear about this, it is one thing that I am afraid of dealing with when I start acting "normal" again. I also live in Michigan, this card that you mentioned is it an actual thing back by the government or a doctor? Where could I get one? Thanks

My doc's office gave me one...I wonder where it is...

That is one of benefits of having an ileo...I can whip it out and ask..."Would you rather have this to break right here?"

quote:

I can whip it out and ask..."Would you rather have this to break right here?"

Have you ever been forced into the situation of having to do this? What was the reaction?

I might get flamed here, but the restroom access laws are a joke to me. Yes I know of Ally and her story, yes I feel for her like everyone else on this site because if you live with IBD long enough it's happened to you, but look at the actual laws. Here's Michigan for example:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/...=mcl-Act-469-of-2008

Here are the violation requirements ALL of which have to be met:
A retail establishment that has a toilet facility for its employees shall allow a customer to use that facility during normal business hours if all of the following are met:

(a) The customer requesting use of the employee toilet facility suffers from an eligible medical condition or utilizes an ostomy device.

(b) Two or more employees of the retail establishment are working at the time the customer requests use of the employee toilet facility.

(c) The customer provides the retail establishment with a copy of a statement on a prescription form that indicates the customer suffers from an eligible medical condition or utilizes an ostomy device, signed by a doctor.

(d) The retail establishment does not normally make a restroom available to the public.

(e) The employee toilet facility is not located in an area where providing access would create an obvious health or safety risk to the customer or an obvious security risk to the retail establishment.

(f) A public restroom is not immediately accessible to the customer.

Do you carry around a statement on a prescription form signed by your doctor? Probably not. Will you ever be able to prove there were 2 employees on site at an under the table operation like a gas station? Maybe, but are you really going to go through that effort? Do you think some law official is going to over this? What's obvious health or safety risk? How is that defined?

AND finally, let's say you take all the time out of your life to do this, file the civil proceeding blah blah blah. Check the fine. 'can be ordered to pay a civil fine of not more than $100'. Maybe 1% of business owners that actually deny you access is going to care about that.

It's nice to get the exposure, and it's nice to be able to threaten or hopefully get someone that's aware of the law and helps you out, but these are largely just pieces of political legislature. That's my thought anyway.

I agree. All that legislative baloney does not help you in real time when you have to go NOW. All it takes is for someone to not be aware of the law to deny you. Being right does not actually give you the power to force you way into their restroom, or prevent them from charging you with trespass or something worse if you do force your way in.

What little time you have is better spent moving on to the next possible option.

I applaud folks who follow up with the idiots, but most of us really do not have the time or patience for it.

I just make it a point to keep track of where the toileting opportunities are and make good use of them.

Jan

I don't know if this would be an option, but I have seen where people will put editorials in the newspaper about how they were denied restroom access in an emergency and I don't think any business wants to be seen in a negative way. I'm sure if management sees it their employees will be instructed how to do things differently in the future.

It is a 5k fine if you deny a bathroom to anyone considered to have a disability. I told this to walgreens when they shut the doors to customers during a parade and the minute I mentioned I had IC they let me in. You can get a medical card that says all this.

Sit or Squat is a good iphone app to use for bathroom spots. Not sure if it is for outside NYC or not.

Since I am an attorney I can spout laws and be a blowhard about noncompliance with laws as well as anyone. However, sometimes you get more with honey than you do with vinegar. The OP never mentioned if he attempted to make a token purchase at the gas station. Sometimes, buying a 5 cent cinnamon fireball is all it takes in the mind of the gas station employee for you to go from drifter/vagrant status to business invitee/customer status. I use one gas station for most of my fills. They have a private restroom with an "Out of Order" sign on the door (which is pure fiction by the ways - toilet flushes like an atomic reactor) and they know me and let me use their private bathroom. If some snotnosed kid comes in, does not purchase anything, and spouts off about Ally's Law which I guarantee you those guys never heard of (they are minimum wage employees) I think he has not much chance of using their toilet. This is not to equate anyone with a snotnosed kid, but I am curious as to whether a simple token purchase was attempted which MAY have led to a favorable resolution of this situation.

I make my living off of people who have poor communication skills and as a result feel the need to threaten and badger in order to get something - which in their minds is easier than actually using their head to calmly devise a more diplomatic approach. Diplomacy always gets results when the person using it has some brains. Threats and badgering often lead to no results, counter-threats and litigation.

Granted that time is of the essence in situations where we need to use the toilet, but sometimes you have to think on your feet in life. Maybe 7 or 8 out of 10 litigation matters I handle are the result of people who have BAD communication skills and are not able to reach a reasonable resolution on a completely resolvable problem. When I get a new case the 1st thing I do is try to figure out where the communications/negotiations fell apart before the case got to me. I can usually identify it in less than 5 minutes usually without even knowing or talking to the people involved.

quote:

It is a 5k fine if you deny a bathroom to anyone considered to have a disability.

This doesn't sound correct, can you back it up with some source material? Possibly someone covered under the ADA or who has been ruled permanently disabled by state or federal government but I doubt that it applies to us.

I think everyone has a need a bathroom now experience in their past. My worst one was when I moved as fast as I could to a one hole uni-sex restroom in a tiny convince store. The last thing on my mind was buying something - which I always do - afterwards.

It's good to have this discussion and the law is nice but in reality young convince store clerks sometimes can barely make change much less grasp restroom laws.

quote:

The OP never mentioned if he attempted to make a token purchase at the gas station.

On those occasions when I need to use the facilities, I need to use them now. I wouldn't have time to negotiate a purchase of anything.

LionsPride - those are interesting statistics about what constitutes a violation. It would seem that most of us wouldn't meet all of the requirements - especially the prescription form requirement.

kathy

quote:

This doesn't sound correct, can you back it up with some source material? Possibly someone covered under the ADA or who has been ruled permanently disabled by state or federal government but I doubt that it applies to us.

The fine in this link says 100 dollars http://www.legislature.mi.gov/...mcl-Act-469-of-2008, it was posted above from 08.

I can't link you to anything since I learned about this in person. Fine or no fine, there are laws business owners should follow. Good faith purchase or not. What if he locked his wallet in the car and had to use the restroom? Not everyone has cash on them and it should not matter.

If you are that annoyed perhaps also print out legal documents about fines, laws, etc. and leave them wit business owners in your area. Educating others is sometimes the best answer.

quote:

Not everyone has cash on them and it should not matter

I think you missed the point of my prior post. Of course there are going to be situations where due to urgency or no cash on hand, there will be an inability to conduct a negotiation or make a good faith "token" purchase. We don't know based on the information we were given whether that was the case here, or not. In most situations I have been in like this, because my continence is fairly good, there is time to make a token purchase and/or a quick negotiation on using the restroom.

I agree that education of business owners is helpful. In the situation where you are going into a gas station, at least in my area, you are either dealing with a 17 year old kid who knows nothing except how to text message and goof off, or an immigrant (usually the case in my area) and you're lucky if he/she speaks English well enough to understand what you are saying, assuming that you can coherently communicate what the applicable laws are to this person. So regardless of the cash on hand or your urgency level, you may also run out of time just trying to explain the situation, especially if you pick out a gas station in my area.

I think the situation in New York City was alluded to earlier in this thread. I am in NYC frequently as I live in CT not far away, and NYC is a really tough place to find public restrooms due to the security measures enacted by many/most local businesses, especially hotels. I recently stayed overnight for the weekend at the Loews Regency on 61st and Park, great hotel, but you walk in and there are 3 large security goons looking for something to do. Most hotels only allow restroom access to guests. If you are female as I mentioned elsewhere, forget about the public restrooms at the Grand Central Station, there are always long lines into the Ladies' restroom. The best bet is probably the Grand Hyatt on 42nd Street next door to GCS and if I recall correctly there is a restroom you do not need a guest card to access on the second floor.

When I am in NYC I am usually in certain locations and I figure out where I can go and use restrooms. For example if I am in Gramercy the Gramercy Star Cafe at 23rd and Lex has bathrooms and they don't go crazy if you go in there and use them although I usually buy a coconut water if I am walking by there as they have a large selection of coconut waters, both regular and different flavors. I have other places picked out as far as where to stop at and use the restroom. Basically all the Starbucks in NYC are so sickeningly crowded and small and have long restroom lines almost as a rule, and should be avoided. In NYC there is generally a shortage of coffee shops as compared with other large cities like Montreal which has like 2 on every block. Anyway, if you can take the time to educate business owners you can also take time to figure out which ones are around where you will be travelling and are user friendly on restrooms.

quote:

In the situation where you are going into a gas station, at least in my area, you are either dealing with a 17 year old kid who knows nothing except how to text message and goof off, or an immigrant (usually the case in my area) and you're lucky if he/she speaks English well enough to understand what you are saying, assuming that you can coherently communicate what the applicable laws are to this person.

quote:

you walk in and there are 3 large security goons

quote:

for you to go from drifter/vagrant status to business invitee/customer status

quote:

If some snotnosed kid comes in, does not purchase anything, and spouts off about Ally's Law which I guarantee you those guys never heard of (they are minimum wage employees)

All these labels are offensive. I think you are intelligent enough to get your point across without belittling other people.

kathy

quote:

All these labels are offensive. I think you are intelligent enough to get your point across without belittling other people.

They are offensive only in your mind. I used very general descriptions applicable to real world situations and not to specific people. They were meant to cover possibilities of what could happen within the realm of one's experience. I would think you would have better things to do than copy and pasting a litany of quotes in an effort to belittle me or my writing style. The only thing that is offensive is your post and the fact that someone would waste time copying and pasting posts to make a trite and trivial accusation. In fact you have done this in the past, not having focused on other things posted in a thread and were blatantly and offensively and obnoxiously incorrect on more than one occasion. All I did was explain possible situations that may arise, and that have in fact arisen in my life experience which includes 40 years with IBD, 20 with UC and 20 with a J Pouch, which WILL cause problems and delay in persons getting to the bathroom, whether it is available for use or not.

Please take your silly agenda for political correctness that exists only in your own mind elsewhere, and leave moderation to the moderators if they so choose.

I agree that Kathy could have come up with a better reply. The one that comes to my mind is that your posts often ramble. It would be ideal if you could stick to the point instead of adding paragraphs of superfluous information.

Sue