as i've mentioned on here before, i used to pretty active. and the activity i used to be pretty active in, was a martial art called capoeira.
i haven't really gotten back into it as much as i was prior to all this, nor as much as i would like to.
granted, i have my pretty good excuses (hey, surgery is bound to put you out for a bit) but capoeira is something that isn't just a sport, it's a lifestyle, a culture. literally. and the group i used to train with is like a family to me.
i've been itching to get back to it, and i have done a little training here and there. but i'm confused as to what is possible for me to do, adn what should be completely off limits.

the martial art involves alot of bendy, almost gymnastic type movements (mind you, i couldn't do back flips on my own before, but even things like backbends, variations on handstands and cartwheels, etc)

i can do the cartwheels, i can do the handstands, is it out of the question for me to begin working on doing backbends again? i thought initially that would be a no-no. but the more i thought about it, what would be so no-no about it? women with ostomy's (and kpouches specifically) get pregnant, i can't even imagine what the growing and stretching and pushing does to a kpouch. but they do it.
and i just gave up on anything ab related. i don't dare. don't go near it.
i know that i can't lay flat on my back on the ground and lift both of my legs. just simply doesn't happen. i can lift one leg, but not both. if my legs are bent, i can lift them.
but the martial art uses your core alot. when i do kicks, i mean, that's working your abs. so i can do the kicks. i know there are ab muscles in there. but i just steer away from crunches, sit ups, etc.
i've posted links to various examples of capoeira on here before. but i just wish i could know, like have someone with experience say it's a good idea or not to do this or that.

(and again, for anyone who is curious or interested...this isn't ME playing, it's two experts in the sport playing a friendly game together. but you get an idea of what i mean by acrobatic gymnastic like movements:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEngM926QOs&feature=related
(the girl in black is from our group, she's one of my role models.
i mean, old guys do it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1kIHUEUdgc
(the chubby one, he's close to 70. and a master at it, of course. but still)
kids do it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edi9GOsDsGg

its been in commercials (this girl is from france, she's also one of my idols):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jlnUM-LiSA

and movies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW2GPQ9YUR0

And ME!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4SpU9vfcgM
(i'm not the blonde chick...obviously)

Have you asked Dr. Fazio about it? It seems really controlled and the movements are fairly slow. There's no really physical contact so it seems like it would be fine. Of course, I'm no k-pouch expert. Why don't you contact BillJ and see what he says?

And that music is great! That's a reason to take this up just for the music alone!

I'm assuming this means you're feeling better, yes?

kathy

Well, Im not sure if this will help, cuz i dont have a K pouch, i have an ileostomy...but, I have done alot of active things like sports and its totally fine....sit ups and crunches and no worries (obviously probably shouldn't over do it though). I did try a back bend though one time without really thinking ( it was awhile back closer to the operation) and it did hurt cuz of the sudden stretch of those muscles and the stoma attached to the skin. I do back flips and fronts flips and all sorts of flips on the trampoline (which is definitely easier). I think that if i were to be determined to do a back bend i would really try and slowly by time just stretch those muscles out day by day and maybe it might work ( but im not sure since i havent got to it).

Looking at the activities from your Capoeira though seem doable... its not too much and slow....so slow would be a good idea when starting out.

Well, hope that helped!!! and good luck

Becca, maybe you could post this in the ostomy section. There must be some serious yogis or yoginis with ileostomies.

Somehow I just don't think an external bag is any comparison for an internal pouch. Especially since the k pouch is virtualy exposed.
I know that even with my j pouch I can do anything. It is old.
I can do back bends and pilates and strenuous aerobics, etc.
I think it just takes time. Since you have ongoing chemo and complications I would think caution is best.
That's just my opinion and I am not trying to diminish anything anyone has said.

oh no, i wasn't trying to do a backbend right now. i meant more like, is it something possible, in the future.

i dont want to misrepresent it, it can be slow. but it is also pretty fast paced when you're in the heat of things, and even when it's not super fast paced, it's pretty constant. meaning you are constantly moving (it's actually the best workout i've ever done, you get cardio, strength, stamina, etc, all in one session).
but yes, i am able to take it a bit slower if needed, and right now, i do.

i did ask dr. fazio once, who sorta gave me a noncommital answer. i couldn't accurately describe capoeira, so i said, gymnastics and acrobatics. and he either wasn't sure, or wasn't listening to me b/c he sorta shrugged and i think muttered something.

when i was at the UOAA conference last year i remember the thought that basically any abdominal excersize should be either avoided or done with extreme caution and modification.

and yes, in capoeira you are in danger of being hit (i'll refrain from posting the pic of me after i got clocked in the eye, gave me a nice black eye. or my cool bloody foot pic.)
but in general the goal is not to kick the hell outta your opponent. the reason the kicks aren't making contact, they are "marking" the kick b/c the idea is that i'm showing you "look, i coulda got you here, look here you're wide open" or you're trying to manipulate the other person with your movements into where you want them to be, set them up almost, to do something to em (i'm not that good yet. it's reeaalllyy hard to read body motions in that way. my teacher, however is awesome at it, and literally, walks circles around me. case in point:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RFijClpwoUk
at like 12 seconds in, she just casually walks to my other side. no challenge)

anywho, i think i'll go with every day just gradually stretching those muscles out little by little. probably walking myself down a wall little by little every day.

(and kathy. i'm feeling a little better. not 100% yet. still very mild cramping. thats sorta cramping my style (ba-dum-dum-CHING! sorry. bad joke) cuz i have to empty the pouch way more often than when i'm 'normal')
but i'm getting there. i guess.

i have a CT Scan tomorrow (friday) to see how the chemo has worked and to find out what surgery i'll be having. yay. cross your fingers and say a prayer for me that it has just all together disappeared with chemo and no surgery will be necessary!! (oh...can dreams come true?)

and basey, thanks, it's encouraging to know that with an ileostomy you're doing those things. like holly mentioned, kpouch is kinda different, but i'd think not so much entirely. so it's good to know someone out there is doing similar things)

I've been getting back into exercising for the past 15 months with the guidance of a trainer.
She is aware I've had abdominal surgery (not specifically what)..
My rule: If it doesn't feel right; we don't do it!
We were working with a weighted ball; throwing it/catching it while doing something else. I had a concern that I would miss catching it and the ball would plow into my belly. I reminded her that my abs "were very expensive" and could we please use a lighter ball. No problem

I noted in a post to Sharon, after several workouts where we did a certain kind of isolating ab exercise, the following day, stool leaked from the stoma more than one time the next day. SO, we do not do those exercises anymore. I may never have flat abs, but that's OK.

You just have to listen to your body.
I have taken a few Pilates classes and loved them. Core exercises are fabulous. They are my favorite.

As we all know, starting slow and easy is the smartest and best way to go. Our bodies will get stronger.

Everything is crossed for tomorrow and vibes are being sent. You've already done all the road bumps that need doing so it's absolutely imperative that your road is smooth from here on out!!!!

Why don't you email Cleveland Clinic with the capoeira links and ask the question again. Maybe they'll be able to give you a better answer if they can see what's involved. (Or is that: "what's invalved?")

kathy

hhahahah! how clever

yea, i may email with links. i just always assume they're too busy to look at links on youtube. but maybe i'll try.

i agree with the 'if it doesn't feel good don't do it' but sometimes i'm so wary of what it is that i don't even try it. you guys have seen this pic of me:
http://cancer-sucks.com/gallery/pics/capoeira/becca-in-Queda-de-Rins.jpg
even tho that shot in particular was taken before my surgery, you basically are jamming your elbow into your side and balancing your whole body on your arm (the move is called "queda de rins" in portuguese which actually translates something into "fall to kidneys")
and i was really concerned that it wsn't a good idea for me to do, so i just didn't. until a couple months ago, and i just sorta hesitantly tried it, and...well, no problem. go figure. there are some variations on that move (such as when you're on your side like that extending both your legs straight up in the air) that i wasn't able to do so easily just then, but maybe in time.

Wow! Those youtube clips are mighty impressive!

As for my own exercise, I just walk and garden (which actually does qualify as exercise with lots of bending, stooping and stretching).

But I'm sure your sport is much more fun. I wouldn't be worried about the stretching part so much as the possibilty of being hit by one of those flying feet right in the gut. Even back when I had my j-pouch (which I assume was less delicate than my current k-pouch) I was warned about the dangers of being hit in the belly. I can't remember the details, but it was something about the problems of being hit over an empty cavity and I assumed that one's interior would get awfully squished.

Some of the clips (of the French girl) had people doing the sport alone, which I suspect would be safe for you if not as fun.

I can't tell--are these all "routines" that are practiced or are they improvised encounters? Maybe you could just tell your "opponent" to kick or mark you from a greater distance than usual because of a special tummy situation.

I can see why you like it. It's exciting.

I had gotten up to 324 lbs and had Lap Band (weight loss) surgery in June 07. I lost 130 lbs and have been maintaining for about 6 months now. Mostly, I ride an exercise bike 60 minutes a day and I do 1,000 ab crunches as well. Push-ups on the stairs as I am not strong enough to do REAL push ups yet.

I just bought a weight machine and plan to start lifting weights as well. I don't do alot of running or anything that really jostles my pouch.

When I was much younger, I was in the hospital for a valve revision and the guy next to me had to have surgery because he was doing martial arts and got kicked right in his stoma. Major problems. Caused his pouch to leak which caused a massive infection.

Keep up the great work!

Mick

mick, you're in atlanta? i may be there again (was just htere in may). i'll have to look you up when there.
do you live IN atlanta, or around it?
I'm fond of EVA and little five points myself.

thanks for sharing though. doubt i'll ever be doing crunches again.

Normally I will sign up for volleyball, racquetball, softball or running (still need to run another marathon just to say I have completed one post surgery). Unfortunately with the recent baby, I am lucky to find time to pick up the morning paper.

I am not so sure about capoeira as my flexibility isn't that great. One of these days I would like to get into some sort of martial arts, but likely it will be one of the more traditional.

My personal thoughts are that you are young and about two years out from the surgery now (If I remember correctly), so this particular form of martial arts would be acceptable. Since the idea is to not contact another, there wont be repeated blows to the midsection etc... We all live a life where things can happen that "could" injure. Just be careful and don't sign up for someone that isn't very good at pulling there punches.

Good luck,

Mike S

As an ex competitive power lifter when I was a teenager (pre pouch) I have always loved sports and workouts so after my K pouch surgery when I was 18 I went right back to it.
other than the last two years of virtual and real hell I have always worked out, mostly swimming, stair climbing (I had thighs of steel! ) and staionary bike with tons and tons of weights....as for the abs, yes, crunches and anything else I could do was fine. I used to average 3-4 hours an evening at the gym and in the weight room 4 to 5 times a week. (I was dating one of the trainners there for years! )
So, from my point of view, you can pretty much do anything that your body says yes to and nothing that really hurts or puts your pouch in danger.
I am only 3 and a half months off of the last revision surgery and I have been climbing hills and doing stairs for the last month not to mention swimming in the Atlantic and jumping waves last week.
I am very careful and do protect my abs because I really don't want to live through another year like the last one but you are young and in great shape so go for it. And have some fun.
Sharon