Probably not so odd for this group. I have not been able to find any pictures or videos on the web of the k-pouch and how one manages life with it, i.e., a video of pics of someone intubating. I was glad to discover lots of ileostomy related video blogs and good vendor information as well. But for the k-pouch, nada. Is anyone aware of a site perhaps that doesn't pop on Google? I am asking because I still have anxiety about the procedure and I am trying to visualize how my quality of life will improve with the pouch vs. my existing routine today. And as we all know, that routine revolved around the bathroom when I had UC and a colon. I know it should be 5-10 minutes a few times a day with the k-pouch, but it would help if I could see how one intubates and how quickly that really occurs. My apologies if this requests is distasteful to anyone.

Though I don't know of a convenient site, a video could show mechanics, but ideas on how many time a day and how long each session lasts -- all vary widely, in the same person as well as from one person to another.

Most of the variables result from what you eat, how much you eat, how well you are hydrated, how much you chew and sometimes other health issues like having the flu or a cold, etc. Most simply, if you're well hydrated and haven't eaten a lot of roughage, your bathroom sessions will be brief, maybe only a minute, because the effluent will be thin and flow right through the catheter. Ironically, thin effluent also occurs when you have a touch of pouchitis or another digestive problem.

If you eat lots of grains, fruits, vegetables, the effluent will be thicker and take longer to pass through the catheter. It's at times like these that most of us rely on an irrigation bottle which speeds things up, though you may have to take a break if unchewed skins and bits of foods clog the catheter. Then one has to go to the sink and rinse out the catheter and start again, which takes time.

I'm a 68 year old woman and intubate 5 or 6 times a day. I avoid certain foods that I don't like much anyway to avoid too many clogged catheters--they're not scary, just time-consuming.

And even if a site shows a person intubating, there are still variations. Some people stand in front of a toilet, I think I've read that some kneel in front of the toilet. I sit on the toilet seat, but farther back that I otherwise would. That way I have more room for the catheter.

Finally, even inserting the catheter varies from person to person. Some, like me, use KY jelly to make insertion easier. You can buy little packs of it to stick in a pocket or whatever. Others just use a bit of water. The angle of the valve determines which direction to point the end of the catheter. Lazy me, I usually slump forward with bad posture on the toilet, but when I'm intubating. it works best if I sit up really straight, sort of arching my back. Then I have no problem.

Reading back on your note, you mention 5 or 10 minutes. That's long, even including thoroughly washing and drying you catheter after use. Even when I irrigate, it's just about 5 minutes per bathroom trip from start to leaving the room. And I'm urinating at the same time which is efficient too.

But then even people with all their insides take some time for that function. Guess that's why one finds magazines in so many bathrooms!

Well Daniel, I agree with Lynne...intubation is a reasonably made to measure affaire...it varies not just form person to person but also day to day and meal to meal...you have a good deal of control over how your pouch/valve reacts...it is all a case of intake/output...when I am going out, working or traveling far and wide I keep to a high protien diet that restricts breads and cakes (more pasty stools and therefore more time consuming), very fiberous foods that may clog me up or require me to have to unblock the tube (not my favorite past-time in public toilets or at stranger's places), and milk products that create a gazzy, bubbly, crampy output in me...I lube at all times because it is better for the valve to not have 'drag' on it..mine is a difficult valve so its needs help and constant tradjectory changes...
I've had my pouch for over 30yrs and really, if you don't want long or complicated intubations then prune juice or grape juice, coffee, green tea and many other such things can keep it liquid and free flowing...and therefore a rather rapid affaire...I don't take longer than a normal 'pee break' time most of the time unless I've eaten unreasonable amounts of unreasonable foods...
There is nothing to fear with the intubation and if you are also worried about discretion you can cover it with a skin toned patch most of the time and no one will know the difference...
All in all I consider it the best invention since sliced bread and a real miracle (when it works!)...I wouldn't go back to 'normal' if it were possible!
Sharon

Hi Daniel....this is a great page that shows it (it's for a BCIR, but will be the exact same for kock pouch, just the internal valve is made different - a technical difference only).

http://www.bcir.com/howItWorks.php

Les Williams and KeithO may be able to really help you as a guy - they are not on this site much but you can PM them. They are wonderful and very helpful.

Interbating time is different for everyone - like mentioned. Depends on how thick your poo moves through the cath, if you need to irrigate and/or if you have alot of unchewed peices of food to manually pull out of the small holes of the cath.

Keep asking questions - it's an important part of the process!!!!

Sharon, Lynne and Janice - thanks for the perspectives. I've communicated with Les and Keith in the past. I know everyone's different. With the ileo I am probably between 7-10 times a day. Usually very liquid. Trying to understand how much the pouch can actually stretch. Fazio indicated 500ml was common which would be great if true. I am very visual so hoping that seeing it as "normal" (at least as normal as emptying the bag) will lessen the anxiety I am currently having.

Janice I found the BCIR video before but it only has a second of an actual person intubating. Animated images for some reason make it seem even more unreal.

Daniel, once the pouch is mature in size (up to 3 mos), how often you empty will be dictated by your digestion and diet. But, typically the pouch gets full after meals. Gassy foods will fill the pouch quicker causing more frequent inturbation. Foods are different for everyone - you'll have to try and test and see.

The continent ostomy is designed so that we do not wear the external bag, not to reduce output necessarily. Like with a Jpouch, output is different then an end ileo and vice versa.

To illustrate the best I can - the cath is inserted into the stoma and poo flows through. It will continue to flow because of how it's made and gravity. You can use your pelvic muscles (like you were sneezing) to help move it out.

It may have alot of air come out and little poo, or, alot of food but little air.

Once it stops flowing (you'll be able to feel if the pouch is still full) you pull out cath. If it's still full, once you pull out the cath, you'll see peices of food not chewed well - there are two holes on the side of the cath that these foods attach too. Or, they are "stuck" flowing down the cath. You take a peice of tissue and pull the food out and can reinsert the cath and poo will usually start flowing again.

And, many "irrigate". You insert a cath, take a syringe with tap water, insert into cath and then it helps thin out the poo or push through peices of food.

If you eat something that makes you sick or get a stomach but, the pouch fills up quickly and you'll be emptying alot. Or you can hitch up the cath to a leg beg until the bug passes.

Does this help?

Daniel, let me add one or 2 things to Janice...my pouch is over 30 yrs old...and I have had a number of revisions..while 'sick' I stayed on liquids (for weeks...or even months) and that made my pouch 'shrink' again...once healed and back to eating my pouch grew again...and is now up to nearly a litre (my normal size was even bigger)....that is a lot for some and not so much for others...
In concrete terms that means that I can have a full meal (altough really gazzy foods will take up more space due to the air) and then go hours (up to 8) without intubating....yes, irrigation as Janice said is part of my daily routine...I like to irrigate when the stuff is thick to make it move along quicker...but it is not really necessary that often...
When trying to explain to my friends and family what intubation was really like...I used the analogy of puckering my mouth and then putting a thick straw into it...that is all....but instead of sucking the straw..the gravity works the other way...it is no more scary or strange than that..except that it is in your abdomen...
Keep asking questions...we are all here to answer you ...
Sharon

Hi Daniel,
I’ve had a K-Pouch for just over 3 yrs now and am glad I made the switch from an external bag to this system. It takes a while to adjust and wrap your head around the idea of inserting a catheter into your stomach to release the waste.

I empty about 6-10x daily depending on what I eat. It takes me anywhere from 5-10” each time. I will say that having an external bag is easier to empty and I could eat just about anything as long as I chewed it well BUT I truly appreciate not having one (having had 2 bags in 15 yrs due to a failed J-pouch), don’t miss it, have no regrets and only wear a pad/bandage. It’s wonderful! I shower/bath without having anything covering my stoma and my quality of life is great~I’m very physically active and sleep through the night.

I gave a presentation to Ostomy patients and have pictures of me catheterizing. You can e-mail me privately and I’ll send you some pictures.

With kind regards,

Some of us have pics or videos on Facebook!